View Full Version : Isonic 117 Vs 117 wide
15th October 2010, 04:11 AM
Hi I am looking to buy a 2011 Isonic and I am debating between the 117 and isonic 117 wide (carbon). From what I read the isonic 117 wide is for light sailors in light wind (I am 72 KG). I currently have 2 boards that I consider for light wind a 2010 Formula LWR and a 2009 Isonic 144, so I am looking to get an iSonic that I can use in high winds (20-25+ knots)
Wouldn't the 117 wide be too close to the 144 from a wind-range point of view? I am looking to mainly use the board for GPS speed sailing (not racing) and I typically sail on lakes where you get some chop on windy days.
Which one of the 2 boards would handle better and go faster in chop? I am looking to pair the board with a 7.2 RS Slalom MKII sail. With the new deck concave, what is the upper limit on the wind speed that either board can handle while still remaning in control. I am guessing that the 117 can handle more wind than the 117wide right?
Is the 117 harder to sail compared to the 117w?
One last thing worth mentioning is looking at the boards width in my quiver, I have the 144 at 85 cm wide and the next board down is a JP Supersport at 69 cm wide, so would a 75 cm wide board or an 80 cm wide one be a better choice here, keeping in mind that my goal is to have a board I can go faster on with more control in higher winds.
So many questions I know :) Thanks so much.
15th October 2010, 09:05 PM
Why do you want the 117? For speed and 20-25 knots, don't you need something smaller? The 107, 97 or 90 would seem like better choices, plus your JP is somewhat similar to the 117.
I don't know much about the differences between the 117's, but for speed and your 72kg, I would go for the iS 97 or even the iS 90.
Your 7.2 RS sail will be a little large on both the 97 and 90, but for speed in 20-25+ knots, you will do better with a 6.5. Plenty of power and much less drag.
I have an '08 iS 111 (similar to the new 107) and it is a bit large for me in 20-25 knots and I weigh 78kg. I use the board primarily for 15-20 knot winds and go to a smaller board in 20+ knots.
Just my thoughts........
21st October 2010, 03:37 AM
I was mainly thinking (looking at my quiver) in terms of width. My current boards are 65, 69 and then 85 cm wide (the 65 is a JP FSW 112). So I wanted to get something between 69 and 85. I don't prefer going to very small boards (100ish ltrs and below) because I windsurf mainly on a lake and we don't get consistent wind strength. Nothing like being on those small boards and having the wind die on you. So the 112-115 platform gets me back without suffering too much when this happens.
I thought that with the new concave design on the deck of the isonics that their wind range has increased. And that is why I was asking.
Interestingly enough that I did not get any real response from the star-board team on this. Maybe I will buy a JP instead after all :P
21st October 2010, 11:25 PM
I think the reason you didn't get a response from Starboard was that you didn't provide the needed information that is in your last post. Now, maybe someone other than me will respond.
I understand your point about small boards and the wind dying. My iS 111 and my HiFly 105 are pretty easy to uphaul when the wind dies or I slog through a big wind shadow, that's why I don't have a smaller iS. I do have a 80 liter Tiga for the really windy days, but it is a poly board and not fast, just smooth.
At your 72 kg, you should have no problem uphauling the new iS 107 or 97. Both will float fine. The 90 would probably sink just a little.
Now the question is - should you go with one of the 117's or the iS 107 or 97? Considering your desire to use the board in winds of 20-25 knots +, I still think the iS 97 is your best bet. Both of the 117's and the 107 will be VERY large in winds over 20 knots if it is choppy. Protected water that only has small chop is doable, but in larger chop/waves, you will have trouble staying on the water and it will be very rough and pounding.
Sharing your experience will also help guide Starboard with some help. Experience? Waterstarting? % of gybes made? Carving gybes? Sail types and sizes?
Also, I have carried a GPS on all my outings for the last 4 years, trying to go as fast as I can. I have found that the biggest handicaps that keep me from going really fast (I have hit 31 knots in my 111) are a less than a perfect venue (flat water and steady winds), not enough body weight to hold a big sail in high winds, and not a small/narrow enough board when the wind gets over 25 knots.
22nd October 2010, 10:24 AM
Wich sails you have?
The 117 wise will be much better than the 144 who is way to big for you and have in your case a very narrow wind range
The 117 wide can be use easily with 7 to 9m and deliver very good performances
Any way at 72 kgs the 97 will be enough volume to support you with a 7m and give really hi speed
All the best
23rd October 2010, 06:17 AM
Ken, Thanks so much for your insights, they are very helpul. I too carry a GPS and has peaked around the 26 knots so far. I am trying to go faster and thus starting to think I need a smaller board/sail. I have smaller cross over sails (5.3 and 6.4) but my slalom sails (RS) come in 7.2 and 8.4, then I have my V8 10.0 for my formula.
The reason I am reluctant to go for a smaller board is the bad experience I had with the JP 101 FSW. I could not uphaul that board at all. I could only water start it. My waterstarts are not perfect and I would rate my success rate at 6-7 out of 10 at best that is why I am looking to get a board that has a chance of me uphauling it in case I can't water start it. Do you know if the Isonic 97 or 107 would be better than a JP FSW 101 in that department. My experience with JPs is that they are more tippy than starboards. I've been on a Future 111 before and it was so eary to uphaul and waterstart. I am beginning to think the 107 would be a good option than the 97 for me. Probably pair it with up to 6.4 sails in higher wind?
Remi would you be able to shed somelight on the wind range for the 97 and 107. What is the minimium speed for the 97 and 107 and at which point does the 107 become too big? 25 knot? 30 knots?
Thanks you both.
23rd October 2010, 12:07 PM
Hesham, don't overlook a board like a Futura, you can get good speed out of the range 111L down, and the bigger boards will handle a smaller sail.
Unless you're an advanced / expert rider it's often easier to get more speed out of a less technical board like a Futura, particularly in bumpier conditions.
23rd October 2010, 01:06 PM
Misho, I think your boards are too big overall. At just 72 kg the ideal size in 25 knots (steady) winds would be something like 80 liter and a 4.5 sail (or 5.5 - 6.0 if slalom sail). For your lake conditions you of course have to go a little bigger, with 30-35 plus liters you should be able to uphaul and float around in no wind at all. A board just over 100 liters should provide that for you.
I think you should look for a quiver like
Futura 101, at 65 cm wide relatively easy to uphaul, fast and easy to control at speed in chop (easier than iSonic)
iSonic 117 Wide for light winds (or even the 117 as your biggest slalom sails is a 8.4).
Formula with a 10 m2 fot really light winds.
On the other hand, you already have a JP Supersport 69 cm wide. I think you should start using this more... It is a really fast board, and should in most conditions be just as good as the iSonic 117 wide (and certainly good for 30 knots.
And the FSW 112 should also be good for 30 knots. You really should not need more than 3 boards (58 cm, 65 cm, 75-80 cm) and formula. And if you don't have a 80 liter board you should manage well with 2 boards (65 cm, 75-80 cm) + formula.
How should your 3 board quiver look like?
25th October 2010, 11:12 PM
You just need more practice water starting and uphauling a 100 liter board. No doubt it will be easier to uphaul the 107 than the 97, but the 97 will provide a lot more fun and control in windy conditions.
I get the 80 liter issue for strong winds, but where I live, I also have highly variable lake wind conditions. Today it is forecast to blow up to 30 knots, and I just loaded my old Tiga 263 (80+ liters?). When we have winds to 30 knots, there will be 10 knot holes and I have a wind shadow to get past (100 meters) with today's wind direction. Generally, I end up on my HiFly 105, simply because it is really tough to get through the shadow and holes on the Tiga. If I go down, then it can be a long time before I can water start.
In Misho's situation, he is being EXTRA conservative because his water starting and uphauling skills aren't yet refined, but he needs to push it a little to move to the next level.
As Waiting for Wind said, the Futura may be a better option than the iSonic. A little slower for the advanced sailor, but possibly faster for the intermediate sailor, and certainly more user friendly in the chop. For an intermediate, it will take quite a while to master the iSonic compared to the Futura.
26th October 2010, 10:25 AM
Well first thanks to all of you for your insights and replies.
Ken is right I am a bieng a bit conservative as I am not 100% comfortable with my water start skills yet. But I think it maybe time to push it and force mysefl to refine it.
So not it is between the Futura 101 or the Isonic 97. Both are roughly the same width (futura at 65.5 and iSonic at 64), with the isonic 5 cm shorter (235 cm vs 240 cm).
The one thing I did not get is how come the isonic 97 is shorter and narrower, and thinner but can carry a bigger sail (8.5 vs. 7.5 with the futura) I would have though it would be the opposite but maybe because it is a true slalom board?
I know that the futura is probably easier to sail, but I am still thinking of the iSonic because once in the straps I can sail advanced boards. My challenge is really in the water start department :)
Having said that I will check with my local store and see what makes sense to get especially since the futura will come with a fin too -
Thanks all - your help is very much appreciated.
26th October 2010, 02:20 PM
Please notice that the iSonic 97 is much wider in the tail compare to the Futura 101 so of course it will plane earlier and handle bigger sails also, thanks
All the best
26th October 2010, 05:30 PM
My Isonic 111 had a wider tail and more power than Futura 133 my partner used. There are quite a few differences between the Isonic and Futura, eg. you'll find it more diffocult to get your foot into the back strap of the Isonic. I would urge you to try an Isonic before going down that path, it could avoid a lot of frustration in your progression with speed,
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