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berg
9th November 2010, 04:24 AM
Hi,

I will soon have a formula hwr 2010. My weight is 85 kg and I will use an 11 tr5. Question is what will be the right fin for this board without breaking the bank.

Like to hear from anyonw with experience

Greetings

Ewoud v d Berg

berg
10th November 2010, 08:13 PM
anybody home? Where are the formula teamryders from Starboard or is there an reorganisation in the house !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mark h
11th November 2010, 03:17 AM
Berg, Im still on the old 161 so no fin expeience on the HWR. But the following might give you some pointers:)

://www.carbonsugar.com/design/hwr-vs-lwr/

First impressions of the HWR and LWR

First impressions of the HWR & LWR from Jesper Vesterstrom.
Jesper recently was in Japan competing and used the board during the event with 12 and 10.7 ... Wind was between 6 - 20 knots. Water was from off-shore (flat) to onshore with big chop...

HWR:
When I first got on it, I straight away felt that the board sits a lot more free on the water, being used to sail with the track rather back than recommended on the 162 I quickly found that doing so on the HWR the board was sitting nervous on the tail. I moved the track to where it was marked from the factory and it was spot on. The board rails up really easy and there is no need to push hard like on previous boards. I felt I sat comfortably and was enjoying the smooth ride.
The board offers good control in strong wind and chop and the mast track can easy be adjusted to the front without the board loosing to much speed upwind and downwind.
The new Carbon/Wood technology gives you a crisp felling while sailing the board and I didnít feel like I was sinking into the board when pumping hard in light wind. The Carbon on top really makes a difference. The new cut outs made me get on the plane super early - and testing against the Japanese top sailors in the light winds was a good match as they are relatively smaller, compared to myself. I was on the plane way before they where and last year they planned way to early

LWR:
I must admit that this board is my favourite in conditions from 15-20 knots.
The round noose offers a lot more control going trough chop, both up and downwind and with the more narrow tail it is just to easy. The board is a ROCKET and the best formula board I have had under my feet to date.
I did not test the board in light winds, however want to compare the 2 when I get them - as I think over a competition with strong winds this board will have an edge on the other formula boards which are more all round. I actually think its a luxury to be able to make a choice.
I will get back to you with more when I have compared the 2 boards.

First Impressions of the Starboard HWR & LWR from Wojtek Brozowski
HWR is a great evolution of 161 which was the best board I have ever sailed. When sailing HWR you feel it seats much higher on the water. You feel like the board is not touching the water, which is extremely pleasant for reaching and downwind, just like riding a slalom board. Upwind performance is also much improved in regard of upwind angle. The board has more press against the fin and the feeling that you can go much higher upwind. The production HWR that I tested in Santa Pola Worlds was much better in upwind angle and much, much better in downwind speed and depth than my best 161 that I used in World Championships. HWR and LWR are with my opinion by far the best boards on the market today. This boards advanced in design a lot comparing to 161.

First Impressions of the Starboard HWR from Chris Ting
Chris Ting, from VMG Blades, received an early release of the new Starboard HWR board. After 3 weeks of testing, here are his first impressions...

Testing
So far I've had the Starboard HWR board for over 3 weeks. I've had many different conditions to test from 6 to 25 knots; ranging from light flat waters to messy chop. I've also competed at two events in the NSW Windsurfing Series.
I've tested with the following sails 11.8 Neil Pryde RS Racing, 12 & 10.7 Neil Pryde RS Racing Evo II. Being 90 Ė 95 kg and over 182cm, this is the recommended board for my build.

Design
The first impression of the HWR is that it looks very similar to the old Starboard 161; but with closer inspection there are significant differences. The outline is very similar, however the rocker, cut outs and the bottom shape are quite different. I'll go into more details on how this affects the performance in the next section. In short, the new HWR is an evolution that has improved on previous Starboard models.
There is significantly more scoop rocker than previous models, which is very obvious when the HWR is placed next to a 162.
The bottom shape of the V and concave has also increased; making the ride much softer downwind and helps the board ride higher over the chop.
Looking at the bottom of the board, there is the Tiki sticker, which shows the wood finish. I think it looks cool. There's also a long Starboard sticker running down the middle of the board. It has very thick edges, but I've been told that this will be removed on later batches of boards.
The mast track is the same distance from the tail as per the 162 designs. I'll talk more on this in Settings.
Starboard has also made changes to the new hybrid wood construction. Moving away from the previous generation's wood decks. The new carbon deck feels noticeably stiffer than the old boards and feels sturdy underfoot.
The new construction has brought the weight of the bare hull down to about 9 kgs, which is lighter than the 162.

Settings
Initially I set the mast track at the recommended position. At this position I was not able to get any back foot pressure and felt like I had too much weight on my front foot.
I gradually moved the track back at 5 mm increments to find my sweet spot. For me, this was 3 cm past the recommended mark and 1 cm behind my 162 setting. Upwind at this spot I now have great back foot pressure and the board trims well.
The foot straps have returned to the thinner, less bulky design from a few seasons ago. I positioned them all the way back, which works well for me.
Also note, the new boards no longer come with a screwdriver so hang onto your old ones.

Performance
Overall the HWR is a livelier board than its predecessors yet retains that familiar 'Starboard feel'. The HWR has a wider groove, making it freer and easy to sail. I like that this can give me more options around the racecourse.
The board rides high above the chop, making it less physical and more comfortable to sail. The increased rocker contributes to the nose riding higher and is noticeable when compared next to other boards on the water. This is not a concern, as the trim is stable and the board does not tail walk.
In rough and overpowered conditions the board remained stable, even with the mast track set so far back. Downwind, the ride is much smoother and forgiving.
Downwind over the back of steep waves, the 162 (and to a lesser extent the 161) could make me cringe as the nose sometimes caught the wave. The HWR rides over waves smoothly and without that imminent feeling of being catapulted due to a bad wave.
In light winds, the HWR needs more vigorous pumping to pop it up onto the plane. I'm thinking with the increased nose rocker, you are initially pushing more water before it pops up onto the plane. When I got it onto the plane, it would stay there and once the conditions filled in, it was no longer a problem.

Fins
The new Starboard boards aren't provided with a stock fin. So I did my testing with various VMG Blades' fins, including prototypes. The existing fins for K70, K73 and K76 all work well, immediately auto-trimming and complimenting the board's performance.
It feels like the board still likes a fin with reasonable amount of rake, i.e. not too upright. This is important especially considering the placement of the mast track.
The prototypes I've tested are showing excellent results. I won't say much more until the development process is complete, but I believe the ideal fin will further enhance the HWR's performance.
If you would like to pre-order or register your interest in the fin, send an email to info@vmgblades.com.

Summary
The Starboard HWR at first glance appears much like its older predecessor the 161. However, there are significant changes to the rocker, V, concave and cut outs making the board much livelier and easy to ride in all conditions. The board has a wider groove and works well with all VMG Blades' fins. I can easily say this is the best board I have ridden from Starboard and it should not be confused with previous models.
If you'd like to learn more about Chris Ting or VMG Blades,

Remi
11th November 2010, 04:55 AM
Hi Berg

Without braking the Bank, the Virus are a very good option and according to some of our rider is better than the crazy expensive Kashy

We finish our Formula Fins test end of this year and post the results on it to fit as best as possible our boards

Hope this help

All the best

Marko CRO169
11th November 2010, 02:46 PM
Remi,
Can you post a contact for Virus ... I tried to find on the web but was not able to ...
Regards,
Marko

berg
12th November 2010, 12:21 AM
Hi Marc, I know this review about boards/fins. But this is what I mean with breaking the bank. This formula dicipline is becomming to exclusive with prices of fins about > 300 euro's and more.I hope other people have experience with Deboichet or so, because these I can get an hand on secondhand.

Remi , besides Virus can you tell me if deboichet has a good one? and like Marco, like to hear what Virus fin will be good and where I can get them.

Thanks for the responses. I know more now and like to learn much more about formula, because I like to get in this dicipline after 25 years of slalom and waves.( witch I will not give up)

I can also get a hand on a 162, like to know what fin will fit best for this board from deboichet

Thanks

Ewoud

Remi
13th November 2010, 04:42 AM
Hi Marko & Berg

andrew@deemeed.com

For Deboichet the best ones is the R 20 for the F162

All the best

berg
18th November 2010, 04:12 AM
Remi

I know the test is not done yet, but will the R20 work on the HWR?

Like to hear

Berg

Remi
18th November 2010, 06:35 AM
Hi Berg

It works but it's not the best one actually on the market, for example the Virus who is at similar price is better than the crazy expensive one

We test many other one before the end of the hear and let you know

All the best

Karolis
23rd November 2010, 04:37 PM
Berg,

R20 is definitely not a good fin for 162, but it works much better on HWR. If you can find it for a good price, get it, but its not the best fin by far. You could also try R13 if you can find older really soft versions of it.


Karolis LTU 1001

berg
24th November 2010, 01:21 AM
Hello

On advice I contacted Virus and they send me a quote for a soft fin , I think I will order it the pictures look good with a very flexible fin. They call it 72 cut soft and twoo weeks delivery. Thanks Remy.

Greetings Berg

It will take some time because it is wintertime here but I will reply with my experience

Remi
24th November 2010, 09:09 AM
Hi Berg

You are welcome and let me know your feedback when you try it

Have fun

All the best

Marko CRO169
24th November 2010, 03:25 PM
Berg, what was the price quote you got?

berg
25th November 2010, 02:36 AM
350 euro , allways to much but i think it s worth it

Berg

TSAF
29th November 2010, 06:28 PM
Berg,

R20 is definitely not a good fin for 162, but it works much better on HWR. If you can find it for a good price, get it, but its not the best fin by far. You could also try R13 if you can find older really soft versions of it.


Karolis LTU 1001

You seem pretty sure about 162.
What fins do you think are more apropriate for 162 then...?

Karolis
30th November 2010, 02:34 AM
Hi TSAF,

I was racing with it for more than a year, so I had opportunity to test it with some different fins and now compare it to HWR. It has been discussed already that 162 needs a powerful fin, but this might be a bit misleading as many people think the softer the fin the more powerful it is. It is not always true though. If soft fin twists a lot it will release power (similar to a loose sail). That is the case with R20 - its soft but I think it has too much twist. And with the powerful tail of 162 it is easily overpowered.

I tried older deboichets (R13, R17), some Lithuanian custom fins, but they did not work well. VMG K76 and M75 was working really good, especially the M75 - it is my favourite fin for powered up conditions even with HWR. I never tried Kashy or Z fins in 162, but they also seem to work very well, at least the ones with not too much twist (as it is customisable). I am not sure about Virus fins, did not test them either, but if they can make it with soft tip and no (or very little) twist it should be fine too.

One more thing - R20 is not a bad fin. It will be definitely easier to sail the 162 with it than with older deb's, but its just not fast. Especially in powered up conditions.

I hope this helped you.


Karolis LTU1001

berg
12th December 2010, 01:33 AM
I just got a mail that starboard has a deal with Virus. They quoted me 350 lately and now they pay me 70 euro 's back. So not bad. Hope I get the fin soon. The board and sail are arived.

Greetings from frozen Holland

berg
30th December 2010, 12:14 AM
The fin arrived

Marko CRO169
30th December 2010, 05:50 PM
Berg, so now please go to sail as soon as possible and come back to us with your impression of the fin! :)
Which of the available Virus models did you order?
Regards,
Marko

JanF
30th December 2010, 07:47 PM
Hey Berg

Where did you find the Virus fin?

Do you have the web adr.?

/Jan

berg
31st December 2010, 09:02 PM
Virus; andrew@deemeed.com

They don't hava a website, but that was no ploblem for me
The advise I got was following;

My name is Michal POL 83 I am also competing oin formula and I am Andrew's son. So I would recommand you fin cut 72 it has a lot of power, you can go planning really easily in light wind. It's a fin with soft top, the rest of finn is pretty hard that's why you don't feel overpowered in strong wind conditions

A lot of ice here now, but when it melts I will give you feedback.

Greetings

Berg

Unregistered
16th January 2011, 12:24 AM
Berg, R20 is definitely not a good fin for 162, but it works much better on HWR. If you can find it for a good price, get it, but its not the best fin by far. You could also try R13 if you can find older really soft versions of it. Karolis LTU 1001
I can recommend to visit to you a site on which there is a lot of information on this question.

berg
24th January 2011, 01:54 AM
Ice is gone. Sailed today in 10 knots. 11 m2 , the fin works good. speedy off wind, nice railing. Feels good. Board sails neutral. Now I got to work on trimming the sail a bit. Crossed the 'Sneekermeer"today.
(you know , where the Gaastra tower is standing.