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4th March 2008 01:39 AM
Ken Unregistered,

I stand corrected regarding the Mistral OD not doing much to promote windsurfing world wide. It did and had a pretty long run. Its strength was in the early years when longboards were still big, but faded off considerably even when it was still the Olympic board.

When I raced longboards (last one was the Equipe II XR), I raced open class and rarely used a 7.5 unless it was blowing over 20 knots. My largest sail at time 10.6 Neil Pryde. I stayed pretty competitive with the course / slalom race boards as they evolved over the years, but when the Formula boards came out, the long board was toast, so to keep up with everyone else, I moved to Formula.
3rd March 2008 07:23 AM
Unregistered everything is more popular than the moth
at 20,000AUD and extremely difficult to sail would you buy one?
no

anyway
does
anyone
have
any real info
on the changes to the rsx board??
1st March 2008 04:52 PM
C 249 I think you're dead right, Screamer, when you point out how important the gusts and lulls are.

Whether 8kg is worth "X" width or "Y" length is something it would take one hell of a lot of testing to find out, and in the end it would depend on the wind strength, sailor, gust/lull structure etc like you say.

I used to love slalom racing and did it to world title level, but never liked it in marginal stuff, when I preferred a powered-up longboard. Some other guys love getting onto short boards as early as possible. As you say, it's a personal thing and to each, their own.

Unregistered; in places like Germany, Holland and (to a lesser extent) the USA, Finns are quite popular. The German Finn association has half as many members as the entire German windsurfing association. Are you telling us that all those old guys sailing Masters divisions in Finns are trophy hunters? With 550 members in Germany and Holland alone (compare that to most windsurfer racing classes) there's no way the class is dead (and I'm not even a Finn fan, but truth demands that we look at reality rather than pretending we know it all).

Interestingly, one of the Finn's big rivals is the O-Jolle, which is like an even heavier and older Finn which is still very popular despite getting very little publicity. These guys aren't trophy hunters and their boats are not dinosaurs - in fact they are much more popular than Musto Skiffs or foiler Moths.
1st March 2008 08:17 AM
Screamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by C249 View Post
If we're talking speculation (and it seems we are) then we have to accoount for the fact that
the longboard has a much faster speed in displacement mode. That allows it to go faster in light winds, and planing lift increases by the square of the speed so low-end speed is important.

And the weight of the sailor AND GEAR (not just board weight) is vital, and the extra 8kg or so of a longboard is less important when viewed against the 90kg or so of the slalom board + sailor unit.

So since the longboard is faster in displacement mode, the lift increased by the square, and the width and weight are only slightly greater, that may well be more important than weight and width. Personally, I feel a longboard planes a lot earlier (and this seems to be confirmed every time I sail one against slalom boards in marginal conditions) but since there's not a dramatic difference between fast displacement, semi planing and planing, it may not look dramatic from the outside.

This isn't attacking slalom boards, which are great to sail.
I agree that a longboard has huge advantage of a much greater non-planing speed, and smoother transition to a full plane. I think this is often overlooked when discussing early planing.

However, I don't agree that board weight alone is "less important" when total weight is taken into consideration. I'm pretty sure 8kg or so is vital even if the whole "package" is 100kg.

My experience is this: marginal, flukey on/off wind - a longboard wins every time.
Marginal, but STEADY - say 10-12 knots - wide slalom wins except on extreme upwind course.(please note, when I say "win" I refer to early planing/speed).

Still, no hard data here, and for some sailors displacement speed and comfort will get them going earlier/easier, while for others a different technique and shortboard feel will play an important part.
1st March 2008 04:16 AM
Unregistered Hi Senor Steveromagnino,
What are the chances of a finn lover cruising the starboard forum.

only trophy hunters sail the fin

and now that the english guy who is unbeatable is sailing the class no one else will sailing the finn
the class is officially dead
29th February 2008 04:19 PM
Senor steveromagnino
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
NP are changing the board,I dont know for better or worst
the 49er is changing aswell it is getting a full carbon mast and new mainsail

its a pity the finn and 470 didn't constantly evolve instead they are like opening time capsules. Ha Ha
49er is a skiffy type boat, so would benefit from improved technology; plus of course the earlier versions were prone to falling to bits.

On the other hand, the Finn is the only heavyweight sailor's option, and while it has also included fancier sails, lighter masts and so on, the reality is the hull shape is old school heavyweight.

They are a fantastic class representing most of what the olympics is about; for people wanting speed there are 49ers and boards and there used to be the tornado. Surely the olympics is not only about the latest and greatest...otherwise we'd have:
- musto skiff big man boat
- moth foiler medium size man boat
- 49er or better still an R or 12 2 man boat
- tornado or F18 cat
- Shaw 650 with wires or similar keelboat/sportboat
- various windsurfing appliances

I don't see this is particularly close to what the olympics should be about. Long live the finn. Unlike the Yngling it is a beast of boat that I am not man enough to sail.

Windsurfing is somewhat unique in that the gear doesn't last more than a few years anyway, sometimes less than a year, and is relatively cheap. So if any class should go through updates, then windsurfing is probably it. Race ready tornado giong around the world....forget about it, you could run 2 or 3 board campaigns for the cost of the container!
29th February 2008 09:25 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
The RSX and the the older Mistral class haven't done much to build competitive windsurfing world wide. The Olympic boards have never been very enticing for the masses and pretty much remain specialized boards for a limited number of racers that want to be able to race in light wind conditions.
Ken,

Correct - throw away the RSX.....but

The only boards that kept the numbers up in windsurfing world-wide were the original Windsurfer and then the Mistral OD.

You are in dream land.

I look forward to the Beijing pumping competition, where your pumping technique will make you win.

Are we windsurfing or pumping. Just check the annual wind averages at Beijing.
29th February 2008 08:12 AM
Unregistered
low carb weight loss and beer alternates

Quote:
Originally Posted by C249 View Post
by the square of the speed so low-end speed is important.

And the weight of the sailor AND GEAR (not just board weight) is vital, and the extra 8kg or so of a longboard is less important when viewed against the 90kg or so of the slalom board + sailor unit.
.
one of the main points weigh all upkit and sailor is key.
that being said ., years ago me and a friend discussed a strategy to lighten optimise our kits ( him an Equipe myself a Comp SST) after being regularly horizoned/ killed by the local 90 lbs weakling on light airs races.
After some brainstomring and checkin the bank account or lack thereof, we put our heads together and realized instead of lighter equipment at premium prices, it was better for us to just lose weight.
plain and simple.
So we went on low carb diets: stayed off the nachos and beer, switched to tuna salad and vodka tonic and lime,.
One big problem ,which any beer drinker funds out when they try hard liquor. Beer drinkers are used to consuming "volume". being a Canadian and used to drinking large volume of beer the vodka route turned us into annialated drunks.
We lost weight but lost our ability to sail.

so the best laid plans of mice and men or rather thirsty Canadians had gone awry.
29th February 2008 05:44 AM
Unregistered NP are changing the board,I dont know for better or worst
the last four year cycle changes where made to the rig.
now its the boards turn

the 49er is changing aswell it is getting a full carbon mast and new mainsail

its a pity the finn and 470 didn't constantly evolve instead they are like opening time capsules. Ha Ha
29th February 2008 03:20 AM
C249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screamer View Post
This is backed by some evidence or a speculation? I doubt they can plane earlier with less width and double the weight of a slalom.
If we're talking speculation (and it seems we are) then we have to accoount for the fact that
the longboard has a much faster speed in displacement mode. That allows it to go faster in light winds, and planing lift increases by the square of the speed so low-end speed is important.

And the weight of the sailor AND GEAR (not just board weight) is vital, and the extra 8kg or so of a longboard is less important when viewed against the 90kg or so of the slalom board + sailor unit.

So since the longboard is faster in displacement mode, the lift increased by the square, and the width and weight are only slightly greater, that may well be more important than weight and width. Personally, I feel a longboard planes a lot earlier (and this seems to be confirmed every time I sail one against slalom boards in marginal conditions) but since there's not a dramatic difference between fast displacement, semi planing and planing, it may not look dramatic from the outside.

This isn't attacking slalom boards, which are great to sail.
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