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Topic Review (Newest First)
5th July 2008 06:23 AM
Unregistered Didn't do so bad in the Baltic...
25th June 2008 09:22 AM
Unregistered KASHY article
http://www.miamiwindsurfing.com/local.html
25th June 2008 08:28 AM
SeanAUS120 I'm not sure if I like that idea Crash! That has always been my argument against RSX. Why is just the "sailors' skill" a measure of their windsurfing abilities? I really believe that tuning is a very difficult skill to possess and having to do it year in year out, when the new gear arrives each year makes it as big a part of the sport as does the actual racing.

The Pro's are generally locked (with their contracts) in to riding the newest gear even if the newest gear is slower than the previous years'. In that case, they must work especially hard to get the new gear going fast with different combinations of fins, masts etc etc. Tuning is probably +80% of most people's training for formula!

I really like what tuning has done for my knowledge and understanding of how all the equipment (especially fins) works. If we were racing a one-design class, all we'd have to do is just have to go out and practice tacks/gybes all day ~ how boring!

You are right though. Great that there's so many different designs out there that are working and nobody is really dominating the fin market at the moment (at least that's how I see it).
24th June 2008 10:42 PM
Crash Hi guys looking at this argument from the outside, I just sail formula boards for fun, maybe each board when registered should be limited to say two stock fins so its a test of the riders skills not the choice of fin! Then there is an argument on progress, fins make such a big difference how else do you get the best fin but continually testing? I think its great that there seems to be a lot of competitive boards this year as each manufacturer tries different designs it would be disappointing if one manufacturer did completely dominate all the time.
Crash
24th June 2008 08:22 PM
SeanAUS120 Polis,

You are right. Steve isn't using an R20. I probably shouldn't say this, but Steve used his Kashy for most of the events last season. I'm not entirely sure what he's using this season, but I wouldn't be suprised if he has a few different fins as well as his old trusty Debs. Let's not forget that traditionally, Steve uses the fins that nobody else uses. He won the 2006 Worlds with an R16 in 6-8 knots! Nobody else could get that fin to work on the F160! So I wouldn't take to heart exactly what he has under his board at the events...

Another point to mention is that the reason you'll probably find that a few more of the top guys are using Kashy fins is that I'm sure they are getting fins designed specifically for them. Take the R20 for example; its available in one stiffness and make only. That's fine; I'm sure its a fantastic fin - but what if I wanted the same fin with just a little more twist at the tip because my sailing style required this? I know not all fins work for everyone and so you'll probably find the top guys wouldn't do well if they sailed each other's fins. When Jesper Vesterstrom was here in Australia in January I tried some fins of his and I thought they were terrible. He's been Top 3 every event this year on them... is that to say his fins aren't very good or that his sailing style is completely different to mine and requires different fins?

Being able to work with a fin designer on your own ideas and concepts is pretty special, and not really applicable to most of world's FW sailors. Welcome to the fastlane of being a pro-rider (these guys are always going to have access to better gear than you). I suspect that's why so many guys have gone searching for Kashy fins and to some extent Hurricane (as Otmar seems quite happy to build you a "you" specific fin). Deboichet is presenting a more 'mass-market' approach to the fins offering only one make/characteristic with the R20, but that's why its one of the cheaper fins on the market (compared to Kashy especially!) and available in relatively low waiting times. I realise having fins only available to certain people at the top is counter-productive to the sport; but that seems to be the norm in FW these days. However, there appears to be new fin manufacturers popping up this year, so maybe that will help distribute the wealth a little more evenly.

That being said... I don't believe you've wasted any money on the R20. I think it will be a very good fin this season. I think they are just simply a little less represented at the front of the fleet because there aren't too many out on the market as yet.

I know at least quite a few of the Dutch guys have got R20's. So there'll be a few popping up at the FW Europeans when the Dutchies come to race
24th June 2008 07:37 PM
Polis Hi AUS 120,

always a pleasure reading up your comments.

i have ordered a R20 but the recent 2 Formula events seemed to tell that R20 is not as 'good' or successful as R19<
AUS 0 is not using a Deb fin for sure this season.

some commented that the R20 was used for BBQ.

i can only spend such amount of $$ and don't want to 'waste' it.

i do hope someone will get R20 to the podium among the elites formula sailors.
21st June 2008 08:10 AM
SeanAUS120 Hi guys,

This post seems to be going in a few different directions now; so just to tie up a few loose ends...

I haven't seen any performance issues with the 162 in the 6-7 months I have been racing against them in Australia. At the front of the fleet and the guys in the mid-fleet have not changed positions to the norm whatsoever after upgrading boards from the 160/161. I sailed the 162 a few times and thought it a real improvement over the 161, especially downwind. Its definitely a different "ride" in terms of feel compared to the 161 and VERY different compared to the Gaastra Vapor.

The 162 is a very 'driven' board, whereby it gets into a groove and sticks in that groove upwind. It sails a little flatter at the nose then its predecessors and feels a little stiffer. If you ever jump on a Vapor you'll notice its the opposite. Its very 'loose' and twitchy and slight changes in foot pressure can make considerable differences to the trim. The Vapor board sails best with a high and flighty front of the board. I often give people a try of my Vapor after they've been sailing a 162 and they are suprised at how lively the board is; its just that it feels lively compared to a stiff board like the 162. They are DIFFERENT boards. All the two-boat testing I have done failed to find one faster than the other.

Regarding "Kashy" style fins. I often refer to them in my articles just to distinguish between them and more traditional shapes like Deb R13, Hurricane 4a etc etc. By 'Kashy' style I mean that they are swept-back at the tip, stiff at the base with a very soft tip section. There's a plethora of more variables in fins than just 'stiff here, soft here', so that was just a broad way to categorise fins. The R20 and most Kashy's are this style however I do believe the R20 is different to Kashy's in terms of outline and flex/twist (its not a 'copy' of a Kashy as others have suggested).

Regarding its availability. I've talked to quite a few guys around the world who have an R20 so it must be available. I believe Oriana has had some personal tragedy in her family so probably things are very busy for her at the moment. Please be patient! Oriana and JJ are hard-working people!

And for the record, everyone of those guys I spoke to told me the R20 is working great in nearly all conditions and that I should go out and buy one immediately.
20th June 2008 09:15 PM
Unregistered Not quite. There is no issue with the 162 through any wind range.
20th June 2008 06:36 PM
Papounet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Guys, I think you all need to settle down a little. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 162. We have raced them since before Christmas in Australia, and can definetly say it is quicker then the 161.

At times the Vapor was quicker , other times the 162 was quicker. Race results were determined by the better racer, not the board.
It was the same with TT05 !
The best board under 12 Knots, some little problems over...

You could be the winner for a race and in the back ground for the others.

In France some good racers sold there 162, to take and other board.
Not necessary Vapor/Exocet, sometimes just an old 160/161 slower than the 162
20th June 2008 03:52 PM
Unregistered There will always be a board that is best for you, not necessarily the one from the marketing ogre... that's where people get it wrong.

While you're at it try the F2 and Exo and then tell us which is best for YOU. Formula is too specific to go with someone else settings.

That's where the fun is I guess.
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