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Topic Review (Newest First)
18th May 2007 08:47 AM
MartinJE
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

Hi Marek

With the FT158 and 9.5 the stock fin is fine. Bigger can get you planning earlier and higher upwind angles, but at the cost of speed and "leg burn".

I use a Dakine XT Seat harness.

I went straight to the FF157 because I'm self-employed and could get plenty of time on the water - we sail all year here; the FF157 DRAM was not so different from the GO - and I didn't want to feel that either the kit was holding me back or obliged to buy another board too soon. The 2nd year FT158 was a logical progression.

Martin
17th May 2007 07:20 PM
Guest
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

85 Kg:
9.5 ~ 8kts
7.5 ~ 10kts

Try being overpowered all the time. You said you got on a plane in 4-5BF I assume on the 7.5. Get a 9.5 and you'll plane with less wind. Only successfully practicing (getting on a plane regularly will
a) make you happy
b) have you progress
17th May 2007 07:15 PM
Guest
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

Great - thank you, and I'll do my very best, sir :-). Did you really jumped into FF right after few lessons and why?

For the 9.5 - do you recommend going to 64 or 70 fin? (my current stock fin is 56 cm...)
Do I just get Drake or other brands are better / as good but less expensive?

I think I'll get a harness now and keep practising with my 7.5 till the end of the summer and then in the winter I'll get 9.5. More time to prepare my wife for this essential investment ;-)).

BTW which harness type would be recommended?

-marek
17th May 2007 03:39 PM
MartinJE
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

Hi Marek

I use 7.6, 8.5 and 9.5 on the FT158 in usually gusty/patchy conditions so my thresholds are vague (depends on chop; energy levels for pumping or overpowered).

9.5 3 cam perhaps 10+; 8.5 no cam perhaps 14+; 7.6 3 cam 16+ with the smaller fin. I hang on to the 7.6 to 20 odd gusts, but by then the chop usually makes a smaller board more fun - although on flat water this combo feels very fast. In powered conditions a harness is a must to keep mast foot pressure on.

My 8.5 is a Retro - great power, but I'm switching to Naish Redlines/Stealths for cam stability and pumpability. A 9.5 should be a great lightwind sail for the FT148 at our weight.

As for straps - I've only used the outer positions (rear, to back; front, mid-way for a comfortable stance). I think the mid positions would be a good learning step to keep the board character whilst teaching good technique. The inner positions seem very extreme - I think they would deaden the board too much and teach sloppy habits.

Keep at it - I went from a few lessions to a FreeFormula 157 - time on the water is the key, and keep gently pushing your limits whilst developing healthy instincts not to sail if the conditions are dangerously beyond your current skill levels and equipment.

Martin
16th May 2007 05:36 PM
Guest
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

Thank you for all the great answers - this forum is just great!
And I'll tame this elephant, don't you worry ;-). B)

BTW: MartinJE, you seem to be similar in weight although you have a larger board (150 vs. mine 148 )- but could you please tell me in what wind speeds you can get your FT planing and with what sails?
I am especially interested in your 7,6 sail (as I have 7.5) - what is the wind range (min. for planing/max. for surviving) for that size?
And I'm thinking maybe for the next season I should get this 9.5 Sailworks Retro... (I guess I'll have to get a new fin for this one as well, right?)

And also - what do you mean when saying:
I would start with the straps in the middle or outer positions, spaced to a comfortable stance
Because I thought beginners should set them in the inner/front position (as close to the center of the board as possible).

Again, thanks.

-marek
16th May 2007 03:00 PM
Guest
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

feet in straps in light wind (3BF) at 85 kg and harness? straps out and back as well??
16th May 2007 01:40 PM
Guest
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

Poor Marek...

He fell for the hype and bought a board that was too technical for a beginner, and now he's stuck with a white-elephant that he can't ride.

How many times has this happened to beginning windsurfers, and how often has it turned them off from our sport forever?
16th May 2007 07:22 AM
MartinJE
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

Hi Marek

I have an FT158 and weigh 85kg. For me there are several ways to get the board on the plan - my approach depends on the amount of power available (sail choice & available wind cf fin size) ...

The critical feature for all is to get the "bow wave" behind the board's rocker at least to the front foot straps, and the minimum of board in the water - by the way I would start with the straps in the middle or outer positions, spaced to a comfortable stance. I don't find the FT sails in displacement (schlogging) mode well - the pilot's job is to transition to planning as efficiently as possible - and the transition usually needs work.

With adequate power: my rear foot is over the FT logo, centre line using the toes to keep the board flat (side to side) or slightly canted away from you to leeward, front foot in front strap with little or no toe pressure to keep the board slightly nose up; hook in if using harness; shift your weight back and out - the board should rise and accelerate - you can assist this by using your legs to pump the board forwards/sideways/bow up to get the board on top of the water and/or flutter pump the sail with your back hand (short sharp pumps to give bursts of power); once the board is up and going shift the back foot to the rear strap in one or more steps.

With little wind/power: my rear foot is over the FT logo, centre line using the toes to keep the board flat (side to side) or slightly canted away from you to leeward, front foot towards mast with little or no toe pressure to keep the board slightly nose up; as the gust comes in shift the front foot to the strap (with little or no toe pressure) and then full body sail and board pumps can get the board up onto the plan - using your legs to bounce the board can also help; once the board starts to go, then flutter pumps and leg pushes can get the board flying.

With heaps of power the board tends to really stick: must be more aggressive - use the front foot to push the nose to broadreach+; front foot in strap - keep the front from diving; back foot further back and out toward rear strap (keep your weight back and lower) - as the board pops and goes, into rear strap; hook in as soon as you can; keep weight in mast foot, use heel pressure to stop the windward rail and nose getting out of control - critical in over-powered conditions.

Fins: stock 64cm - 8.5-9.5; 56cm - 7.6; 70cm - I've used occassionally with 9.5 (my largest sail) to get planning in very light, but drags.

Mast base - less power/flat water start at rear (1/4 way up); as power/chop increase shift forward to 50% then 75% - full forward seems too flat for up to 9.5.

8.5 is my most used sail; but the 7.6 (Naish Redline 3 cam - I'm rotating my sails to cammed Naish Redlines and Stealths) and smaller fin is the fastest if the power's there and you're commited ... good luck.

Martin
16th May 2007 01:54 AM
steveC
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

Hi Marek,

I'm of a like mind with Per regarding the harness. Also, as James suggested in his first and second points, set your footstraps inboard and get your rig properly set up for your size, particularly focusing on correct boom height and harness line position.

In my opinion, to have any real luck planing, you need to be in the harness first. In reality, you need to be hooked in to have sufficient control over the rig. Initially, don't worry about pumping your sail, as you want to understand the subtleties of the wind's power, how it affects the kit as a whole, and how it ultimately promotes the transition to planing. Pumping helps to stimulate the planing process, but I feel it really is more of an advanced technique you can introduce later after mastering the core basics.

As mentioned by others above, you want to bear off the wind to help develop sufficient board speed to allow you to start moving towards the straps. On many boards, it's actually possible to have your front foot in the strap when you initially bear off the wind. In any case, as you gain speed and begin to move further back on the board and get your front foot in the strap, you should recognize that in the process you are beginning to rake the sail back. Simultaneously, you need to start applying power with back arm by drawing the sail towards the rear of the board. At this point, it becomes increasingly more important to get your back foot in the strap, because it establishes your proper stance and balance position for the board to start riding on the planing section of the rockerline. Once in the straps, your speed advances greatly and allows you to footsteer the board and begin heading higher into the wind without losing speed. There are many subtleties to stance, board and rig positioning that you will learn over time. Also, as your skill gains consistency and strength, you can start experimenting with outboard strap positioning and other tuning adjustments to improve performance.

Overall, please remember the importance of being hooked in to gain the needed leverage over the rig. Truly, an important first step to effective planning.
16th May 2007 01:20 AM
o2bnme
RE: How to get on plane on Ftype and what is the correct stance - need help.

Hmm... with my F-Type 148, I get it on a plane in the lightest winds by first, putting my feet in the straps. I head downwind a bit and make sure the sail is as powered up as possible. By this point, I have already put my front foot in the front strap. The back foot is near the centerline of the board just behind the front foot. I put the back foot in the strap right before I start to pump, but after I point the board slightly downwind. Having your feet in the straps at this point will only work if you get the correct synchronized motion during a very aggressive set of pumps.

I'm a lot lighter than you (65kg) but this should still apply. The key is to pump with your feet too. It should be like a dance -- you want to get the board on top of the water so you have to lift it. First, you pull with your arms (start with your front hand sooner than your back; pull with back hand longer than your front). As you finish the pump, you should be pushing with your back foot across the fin. This will load the board up in prep for the pop. Then, you lift the board with your front leg as you prepare for the next pump. This should lighten the board, so when you pump the sail, the board will be free(r) on top of the water. You should keep the board heading downwind and actually try to push the board downwind with your front foot ... it should feel like the board is slipping through the water.

In the lightest of winds, I do this a couple of times and I'm planing. Then I do a few smaller pumps that don't involve lifting the board. We don't have any hard core formula guys on our lake, but we do have people with traditional formula gear. I'm planing as early as if not earlier than they are. I believe this is a combination of my pumping and my weight.

Regarding sail size. I use my F-Type 148 with an 8.0 Retro and a 9.8 V8. A friend who weighs 85 kg has a 10.6 V8. He isn't quite as efficient as me, but he is learning fast. He tried the F-Type in pretty light winds ... on a day when I was able to pump up onto a plane with my 9.8 V8. He was able to get it on a plane no problem. We were using a 70cm formula fin this day. When I'm using my 8.0, I go down to a 66 or 68cm fin depending on how powered up I am. I rarely use the 56cm fin as the amount of pressure I put on the rear foot spins the board out when fully powered up and heading upwind.

I'm not sure what size fin are you using? The board comes with a much smaller fin than I find useful on the board. This is probably just my sailing style entering the equation as I know Starboard had a reason for selling them with a 56cm fin (I would love to understand why this was the chosen size). I find with the bigger fin, I can pump more aggressively and then get the board to rail up and fly freer in the light air. And in the heavier winds, I find it floats over the chop much better. $0.02 YMMV
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