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12th October 2008 12:42 PM
geo Poster #29,
I would really like to test an RS:R in one size comparable to those I use, but in no case I would buy one. I know the RS:R is plenty fast and competitive but can't accept the limited warranty on masts, neither I want to experiment with different masts,neither I like the complicated cams; neither I like knowing a large amount of the money I spend goes into commercial politics aimed at convincing me to spend that same money, such as sponsoring a huge team.
The reason I choose TR's is in that they do work perfectly with their suggested masts and suggested settings right out of the bag; finer tuning is just a matter of getting perfect adjusments for prevailing conditions, not of finding THE "sweet spot". I like this as I am a recreational sailor and want to spend my windsurfing time on water, not on shore(... or in shop...). In other terms, it's the sailmakers experience that really works, no need for the time consuming process of making one of my own. Plus, of course, those are obviously super fast sails 100% fit for the task, as demonstrated by extreme performances by sailors well under 100 kg, both on the PWA tour and in speed sailing. By the way, accelleration out of the jibe seems to be the main TR's strong point compared to competition.
I have to admit that NP took a nice trend recently, by admitting their RS:R are already at their top and NOT introducing new models each season just for commercial reasons; which by the way is a 180° change compared to their previous habits. TR's on the other side are so revolutionary and new that probably can evolve some more, at least this was the case going from TR-3 to TR-4.
Pity you didn't find the right feel with your TR-3. I understand this is what is happening very often to NP and North users. You tend to identify sail power with back hand pull, which isn't the case with TR's. As a result, I think NP/North users may tend to oversheet TR's searching for that heavy back hand pull they are accustomed to, resulting in excessive angle of attack that kills sail performance. TR's pull very little sideways, but still have lots of propulsion. I recently succeeded in helping a friend to properly test a TR-4 by telling him not to overdo the DH and not to oversheet it: must have felt unusual to him, but in the end he realized the difference, loved the sail and is now in the process of changing his current quiver to TR's. He is a very eperienced FW and slalom sailor that competes at local and national level with lots of experience on RS:Rs, Warps and Vapors.
As for tuning options: you really don't need to adjust DH that much on TR's, unless you are into superoverpowered superbroad reaches sailing: the sail will work any how, and will be plenty stable and fast. Just needs some OH tuning to adjust to prevailing conditions. I was told that PMcG eased 3 cms. (!!!) off Josh Angulo's 7.0 downhaul before his winning final race in slalom #2 in Sylt in epic conditions. Seems he knew what he was doing.
12th October 2008 09:21 AM
Unregistered Get the NP MXT extension. I bought them for RS6 and now RSracing. THe rollers are set up to make downhaul a lot easier. Also the rope is super strong. You will find with any other extension the rope drags through the cleat when using a winch. After 2 or 3 downhauls they snap. Really you'll save yourself a lot of frustration and sweat with a MXT.
Regards
Ulf.
11th October 2008 11:05 PM
Unregistered Geo,

You should try it a RSR on a shorter mast, I'll bet you sell the TR-sails at once. What is wrong with tweaking your sail to your weight/skills/sailngstyle? I wouldn't choose the same setup as Bjorn/Antoine??? I'll take 1m smaller, and probaly other masts. Is that wrong??? For low-wind or deep upwind/downwind the recommend mast is very good. In very strong winds you can soften up the rig by a shorter mast... The X9 wavemasts are not breaking, nor all x9 ultramasts I've used. I wouldn´t like to overdownhaul a new sail with recommend mast. Or rig it with a stiffer mast- stiffer top / different brand.

I owned a Mauisails tr-3 for a short period, but the sail had way less tuningoptions than the RSR. 1cm downhaul on the RSR is 100 times more effective than on Mauisails. Shorter mast also, Outhaul tuning is more alive. The mauisails is sometimes to soft, and giving a LOT less drive/power ratio. Mauisails is however sweet to rig and tune, because I have experienced a big range of well working settings. I can imagen a lot of riders like that.

It is a difficult story. But all the NP sailors I know that have found the sweetspot won't change the sails for another brand. You probaly haven't experienced it, but you will be stoked when you experienced it. Maybe you believe RSR is quite a nice sail, or not. I hope it helps some people to go faster, and have more fun!

GOFAST!!!!!!!
11th October 2008 01:01 PM
geo This is really funny.
Poster #27 admits each every RS:R sail size needs some mast choice tweaking to make things work and/or keep on working, small sizes on wave masts, big ones on shorter masts to get some softness and reliability... or second tier X6 masts that still are "very good"... you have said it all! No need to add anything more, just a resume and obvious conclusions: only my conclusions are totally different from yours!
Those sails are stiff, recommended masts break, different masts obviously will not retain designed top performances. This is what you say, I don't disagree. Seems pretty clear that those rigs are designed for heavyweight top team racers, who need stiff sails and have unlimited supply of new masts.
Yet, NP is still "the Best"... the best for Albeau and Buzianis, probably yes; for you and me, I don't think so.

True same manufacturer doesn't mean same bend curve, and pity Peterman does not provide MaverX bend curves on his very useful IMCS bend curves web page. He did a great job nevertheless. Probably independent mast suppliers, such as MaverX, have their masts manufactured to have a decent fit on most sail designs, which means probably have intermediate bend curves (close to true constant curve / 12 bend characteristic?). One could guess they are less than ideal alternatives for "extreme" bend curves masts, such as both Neil Pryde and Maui Sails, for opposite reasons.
11th October 2008 05:15 AM
Unregistered because NP is the Best.

Neilpryde Racepro is a very very stifftop mast, while X9/X6 has a very soft top, totally contrary. Don't rig a new x6/x9 recommand RS on a racepro please, maybe a shorter mast would just work out. Or a 430 base 400 top from a racepro.

In small sizes up till 6.7 RSR I see a lot of riders using X9 wave mast, these don't break @ all, but yet top-end perfomance. On bigger sizes you have to take the right mast, sometimes you can soften up the rig by taking a shorter x9.

A X9 in a RS slalom will bring the sail to the highest level, the 430 x9 wave... the best. X6 430, very good, no breaking problems.

Maverx? Maybe it works?!? Haven't tryed it. If it is more stifftop it will have a higher chance of breaking, and performance will be worse. Note: same factory = Not same mast.
7th October 2008 05:37 PM
Unregistered Why don't you go for a total different kit for less money and more durability and peace of mind while sailing or rigging and sleeping...
7th October 2008 05:05 PM
Unregistered
RS6 broken my carbon base extension

Last week I try to trim my RS6 5,4 as recomended and broken my NP carbon base extension.
The previous week I just finished trim my RS:Slalom 6,2 and while put my arness I heard my 100% mast (NP RacePro 430 100% Carbon in very good conditions) broke on the boom section. Finaly I will buy a MaverX mast. No more NP because limited 6 month waranty.

Alberto from Spain.
7th January 2008 12:37 AM
ppp
Quote:
Originally Posted by rethanaish View Post
Is there any alternative mast , with the same diameter bottom part that fits inside the top part of a X9 ?
Thankfully the top never break , thank you Neil Pryde !!


u can try MaverX mast, almost same made except diifferent companies.
6th January 2008 09:43 PM
rethanaish Is there any alternative mast , with the same diameter bottom part that fits inside the top part of a X9 ?
Thankfully the top never break , thank you Neil Pryde !!
26th May 2007 02:58 AM
Ken
RE: Neil Pryde X9

Two years ago, I broke three NP carbon extension in the same morning while rigging a new Formula sail. However, they were pretty old at the time. The pullies blew out of the extension. I now only use aluminum.
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