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3rd August 2007 08:27 AM
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?

Hi Sean, thank you very much for posting your speed experience with the 161... It is great to know that the F161 actually go over the 30 Knots!!!...

Today SW 15Knots G 20Knots, I had a great opportunity to go sail on another lake which normally we go there only when it blows NW....

It was flat water... went out with my RS-6 9.8 and Kashy 68M+... my best speed was 26.7 Knots...

I think you were right about the flat water has nothing to do to increase the speed of the run... I also wasn't sure if I should of go deeper when the big gust hit me... or I just too small (60kg) to go over the 30Knots...

I also think going 30 knots with the F161 .... is very very very fast and scary.... yet ...it is such a great fun thing to do...

Thanks for your feed back, love it! ciao
29th July 2007 10:33 PM
mark h
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?

Hi Sean
Railing the board scares the life out of me, feels like hydro-foiling (but never actually tried hydro-foiling before !!!) and suddenly I get very concerned about my middle-aged ankles, usually followed by a crash. I think your 100% right about it being easier in slight chop (compaired to flat water). I'v got some winter traing video coverage of Wojtek Brzozowski railing a F158 in Egypt, he did make it look easy.

Good luck in Poland & Silvaplana.

29th July 2007 10:14 PM
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?

Hi Mark,

I was thinking more about the formula speed this weekend. I forgot to mention that Dennis later told me he did some of his fastest runs in the centre of the lake (Oostvoornse) where there is a quite a bit of chop, rather than against the rockwall which was "speedcourse" flat.

That sounded strange, but when we were discussing it, I just realised that to go downwind fast you need to do it as you would while you are racing (despite not going so deep). You need to "fly the fin", that is, excessively rail the board to reduce the wetted surface area (less drag)... This is actually pretty scary to do in 30 knots as you don't have a lot of control over your board doing this ... if you lose it, you are most likely gonna die (Dennis found that out the hard way later that afternoon!).

When you sail in dead flat water its a little harder to rail the board; small chop that is close together is the best for this, as well as a long fin +66cm, because I would think possibly the 63cm might not be long enough to get your board railing - interested to hear how it goes though! maybe it does...

The best runs I did were sailing against the rockwall in the smooth water, then bearing away considerably until you hit the small chop about 200-300m away from the wall... So maybe flat water isn't the key...

Anyhow, off to Poland tomorrow and Silvaplana afterwards. I'll try and make it back down to Rotterdam again at the end of August and if there's any wind we'll see if Dennis and I can put some more runs on the board.

28th July 2007 01:20 AM
mark h
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?

Hi Sean
Could you please "sabotage" Dennis's fin, he keeps raising the game on formula speed. Nearly 31k on the 500m is wicked. I'v spent months trying to break 30k/500m and its real hard but I will get there.

Your speed at 32.45 knots is a brilliant & should be enought to prove that the F161 is fast. I'v only managed 31.3 on an older F159 but think that there is more to come (on the right day). The F161 is fast, I dont believe that SB would produce a slower replacement model, common sense.

I think your right about a 10m as the smallest. I'v got Warps 9m, 11m & 11.9m so I dont have a 10m. At 30 knots, the 9m just feels to small on the F159 so trim is not as good as a bigger sail. I'v just bought a R13 63cm to get higher speeds as I think this will work better with the 9m (for me).

I'v noticed that slalom & speed boards seem much easier after trying for speed on massive formula. As well as being fun, formula speed must be a good light wind training tool (and great for course racing).


My track,
F159/Warp 9m/66cm C3/15-22 knot winds.

27th July 2007 03:24 AM
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?

Hi guys,

Been watching this post with interest, and decided this week to see if I could get my 161 over 30 knots. I did...

I was sailing with Dennis Littel (NED-13) the last two days at Oostvoornse (south of Rotterdam, Netherlands) and the wind was around 25 knots. I used my 10m Vapor with R13 66 M and Dennis was on 11.0m TR-3, R13 68, F2 FX V. Dennis should now have the record by another knot from his previous record (from yesterday) as it was a little windier today.

Just some comments on formula speed runs... I don't think that its possible to go over 30 knots with a sail smaller than 9.0m, and I think the people who have broken 30 on a 9.0m would've been faster on a 10.0m. I also think that you shouldn't be using fins smaller than 66cm. Formula boards are wide and have a lot of wetted surface area, you need the power to get them to move. The faster you go, the more drag you have and more power you need.

From what I’ve tried with Dennis, the fastest angle on a formula board seems to be around 120... we can obviously go a LOT deeper, but when you do, your apparent wind decreases appreciably (almost below your board speed) making it hard to travel fast - your board can't go faster than your apparent wind. To go fast at 120, you need to have a decent sized fin, because otherwise you will spin out and your board will be unstable – hence the need for +66cm fins.

In my mind the perfect formula-speed setup is a 10m on a 66-68 fin in 30 knots on flat water. After sailing with Dennis it seems as though the F2 is faster than the starboard in a straight-line speed dash, however, on the race course that's a completely different story

I haven't got a profile on gps-speedsurfing yet (one day), but you can see my track at http://www.aus120.com/gps/26.07.07.gpx. My best 2-secs was 32.45knots and 5 best 10-secs was 29.00knots (puts me 6th on the list I think).

Now, the challenge is, to get this speed you also have to be able to get upwind angles of -49 degrees and VMG’s of +10knots. You’ll need at least that to win a Formula Euro-Cup in windy conditions…. That’s roughly what Dennis and I were getting earlier that day when we were actually trying to test gear instead of just going for speed runs

I will give Dennis a quick plug now, because I ended up getting off the water half an hour before him because I couldn’t even sheet in any more on my 10m!! He was still out on his 11m! arrggh! Crazy.

Starboard 161 = Fast! (its faster than the 160 imho).
11th July 2007 08:02 AM
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?

Oh! Thank you Steve GBR-135 for your web site pointer... nice place to hang out...COOL...

Keep ripping guys! and eat some more balls
11th July 2007 07:53 AM
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?

Hi, I agree with Ken, it is just fun things to do, after sail and drag race all day long with all of your friends and race all the motor boats on the lake. All of sudden I realized that I have a GPS and started to wonder how fast this board and go. or how fast that board can go and what board can make you go faster... and why the F160 is faster and why the F161 is slower... so as you can see... you get to find more things to do with your gears... and have even more fun with them.

Thank you very much Peter for your report on your speed... you must be really feeling fast with your F161!

I truly think F161 with a formula set up can't get over 30 knots... so why the F160 can... less wide? may be....

I also agree with windsurfingdagg where we can have a place to register all the max. speed for each board, just to see how fast it can go... Isn't that "if you are feeling comfortable you should go faster"-- Robby Naish!

happy sailing to you all!
10th July 2007 09:41 PM
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?

There is at moment (and has been for a while) a lot of fuss about top speeds of boards. Its not irrelevant but its almost so !
Sailing is about having funand rarely is the board with highest speed the most fun to sail.In my experience it never is !
If you are racing again top speed is not as important as you might think.All other things being equal then obviously it is but they never are !
In our little group first back to beach in a race rarely has Vmax.Upwind ability and control are probably more important than 1 or 2 knots.
We`ve gone through all the GPS thing. Its got a bit tedious; arguing over who has fastest speed; blah blah blah.
Go out enjoy sailing; have good fun with your mates.
And having said all that even with modern kit it still boils down to heaviest sets highest Vmax; lightest planes first.Best sailor wins races.(Or lightest or best equipped or luckiest or heaviest? there`s always a reason.!)
A 95k + sailor would do 30k on a 161. A 70k one would not.(IMO) But he wouldn`t be on one would he ???
10th July 2007 01:25 AM
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?


None of us are buying formula boards for speed, it's just fun to see how fast they will go.

A 100 cm wide board with a 10 m sail moving at 30 knots is impressive. I think even more so than a speed board and 6 m going over 40 knots.

It's just fun to push them to the limit. Actually, it's pushing the sailor to his limit.

If your point is that it doesn't matter that the 161 might have a slower top end than the 160, you are right. It's the other factors that determine who wins and who loses.
10th July 2007 12:36 AM
RE: How fast can you go with your F161?

Hi All,

The important is to be first at the finish line and is not the top end speed who give this result, but the angle up wind, downwind and the ability to have a very good constant speed in any winds conditions.

But if you want to make a record , go for smaller fins and 10m² and it's possible to go over 30 knots. But this not represent Formula race anymore.

Have fun

All the best
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