Go Back   Starboard Forums > Free Forum > sunken mast track

Thread: sunken mast track Reply to Thread
Your Username: Click here to log in
Image Verification
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:

Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
7th August 2007 11:54 AM
RE: sunken mast track

Hi Thomas,
I haven't seen the video "Faster" by Peter Hart, so I cannot say how applicable the tuning info is to your current gear.
If the boards look to be similar width, then much of the tuning may be similar.
If they are on slilghtly older dedicated slalom boards then the rig tuning should work, but the techniques and board tuning may require a little "modification" to be fully applicable.
Only way you can finds these things out is to go out and spend the time on the water to test them yourself in your conditions with your gear.
Unfortuantely no one can tell you to set your board/rig/fin up a certain way and you will be tuned at 10/10ths.
Even if they were to sail your gear and go considerably faster on it than you can, you probably could not take it out and duplicate their speed without making some changes to make things more comfortable for you.
As far as the adjustable outhaul, that's a very inexpensive way to get even more performance out of your rig.
Yes! Get one!
Check your footstrap to see that it's really tight to the boad and that the anti-twist device is working correctly.
Footstraps usually last a long time, and if you feel there's a problem, take a digital photo and work a warranty back through the dealer you bought the board from.
Normally you have to take the board to the dealer, but for something like a footstrap, maybe you could just send the footstrap in.
If you straps are tight to the board and not twisting, I wouldn't worry about the neoprene cover too much.
Hope this helps,
7th August 2007 10:22 AM
RE: sunken mast track

wow I had no idea. I will keep that in mind. The sail tuning and trimming and technical stuff like that will still apply though. Won't it? Like the movie Faster by Peter Hart? All that speed advice is still good? That is an awesome movie.

Also, Roger or Ian, would you recomend getting an adjustable outhaul for my 7.6 and maybe my 6.6? I would like to get into slalom sailing and speed sailing as well as long distance course racing with friends at my local spot. Wondering if its good with sails like that. I know they recommend one for big sails.

Oh and after 3 sessions on my hyper, my mom noticed that the footstrap neoprene or whatever they use is ripping at the seams. I don't see what would cause this. Maybe just defective? Its only on one footstrap. But it looks like the whole thing is comign apart. Bad material/production mistake?

Thanks a lot,

6th August 2007 12:17 PM
RE: sunken mast track

Hi Thomas,
Sheeting in (oversheeting, actually), to start your jibe, when you are really powered up, is the correct thing to do as it takes some of the power out of the sail, and sort of "draws" the nose of the board into the carve.
When you are less powered, and have less speed, shutting off the power isn't what you want to do.
So, for fully powered up to overpowered, yes, oversheet as you head into your carve. When underpowered or only marginally powered, you need to keep some power in the sail to keep whatever speed you have. This would be where you sheet out prgressively as you turn off the wind.
If the guy in the video was talkign about small wave and bump and jmp boards, where your stance is alot more vertical, and the tail of the board is very narrow, yes, stomping DOWN on the tail brings the nose up and if you time it correctly, that will occur just as the board "pops" off your ramp. In flat water, this same rapid downward push on th tail will get the board up out of the water for small jumps and to get the board out of the water for freestyle tricks.
But it does not really apply to a wide tailed board like your Hypersonic.
I'd look for the steepest ramps you can find, and use the limited "pop" in the board for any jump attempts, and be sure to land the board flat (rail to rail) as if you catch the wings at the back of the board, you will probably have a "yard sale".
Boom height is a very individual thing.
Formula racers on huge 9.8 + m2 rigs run the booms very high.
Slalom racers run their booms much lower.
You have to find out what height is the most comfortable for each of your sails. Normally the larger the sail the higher you may want to run the boom.
For super fast (scary fast slalom) in higher wind conditions, even the big guys run their booms down around shoulder to chin level.
Again, you have to experiment and figure out what works for you on your board, with your fin, and your rig.
You seem a bit "susceptible" to what you are seeing on the videos.
The videos are good, no doubt, but you have to look at the conditions they are made in, the board and rig types they are using, and see if these things match what you have.
The more their gear is different from what you have, the less credible the video is if you try to apply it to your sailing.
One thing to consider.
The videos are most often made in salt water, and you are sailing in fresh water. Just the difference in buoyancy is going to make a difference.
Hope this helps,
6th August 2007 11:19 AM
RE: sunken mast track

ahhh I get it. the jibe part that is. I am almost starting a downwind 360 kind of thing I guess.

This only happens when I am really powered. Overpowered that is. I have no problem when I am comfertably powered. I heard someone say sheet in when you are overpowered while jibing, but I guess I took it too far in my case and didn't sheet back out in time.

As for the jumping, I was watching Beginner to Winner and he describes pushing with the back foot to get the nose up etc. I was just confused I guess. I will try it again next time I am out.

It is really cool right now. My first time out on the hyper was pretty scary. Compared to the Go 139, I was blasting WAY faster I was almost afraid to bear off. Now it seems like I am just going slower. I guess im just getting used to the speed. I am starting to bear away on some runs and try some speed runs. Its fun. I hope to take my friends GPS out. Get some tuning things checked out to see if they really make a difference. One massive one that I just found out is that this hype about early planing and a high boom is actually very true. I was out in a marginal day and during a long lull, I raised my boom as high as it would go... I would normally not even think of getting planing, but now, I was comfortably blasting around!

One more question. Does this boom height make increase speed as well as early planing? Or once you have your stance dialed in, or does it matter once you are planing.

Thanks so much for helping me understand Roger,

6th August 2007 10:46 AM
RE: sunken mast track

Hi Thomas,
Ok, I'm not sure where you came up with the jumping sequence your describe, but if it works for you.....?
How about finding a good steep ramp, crouching so you can "spring up" when the board "pops" off the ramp, and then hauling the rig out pretty flat so you get a bit more airtime.
If you are trying to do flat water jumps, go ahead and try, but I think finding ramps and using them will prove alot more effective.
On the jibing, if you are cranking around with the sail oversheeted, in not too powered conditions, I'd suggest trying to keep the rig slightly powered on the way in, flipping before you are straight downwind, and then starting to sheet in on the other tack when you are still well below a beam reach.
Don't see how you can back wind doing this...?
Laydown jibes are simply regular jibes where the rig gets laid way over on the entry. The rig comes back up and gets flipped just like normal once you get around to nearly down wind.
Hope this helps,
6th August 2007 10:25 AM
RE: sunken mast track

I wasn't talking about pushing the back foot trying to go upwind. I have no problem going upwind now at a good angle. I figured out you can't expect to just push hard on the fin and do all the stuff you need to go upwind and expect imediate results... You have to keep it constant, gradually loading the fin more and more and you will steadily go upwind at a greater angle.

I was talking about jumping technique. Like with a wave board, you push down wind backfoot to raise the nose then pull up etc with everything else and get into that crouched stance and footsteer the board off the wind again.

My question was, What do I need to do to jump a slalom board? Thats what I mean... I tried getting my weight over the board more and pushing (like olieing a skateboard) with my hyper, but it felt wierd and I just carved upwind. That is what I meant.

Jibing, I will try releasing the sail earlier. How do the people do those crazy laydown jibes? Don't they get backwinded? or am I just holding that sheeted in stance too long. That would make sense. Once my friend gets back from out east, I will get him to take a sequence shot and I will edit it together. I feel like letting the sail go early just gets the jibe going slower or something... not as fluid I mean

Sorry for the confusion and thanks a lot for answering all these questions. I was lucky enough to get a wierd 3 days in a row of quality powered 7.6 conditions. It seems like the 7.6 race/slalom sail I have (naish redline from 06) is a very good match with the hyper

6th August 2007 09:49 AM
RE: sunken mast track

Hi Thomas,
As far as "pumping the fin" you need to just jab or "pulse" the fin a few times, without changing the roll trim of your board (which should be as flat as you can keep it).
Yes, the Hpersonic can be pumped with the larger fin, but pumpng is less effective with the smaller fin.
You can do some "chop hops" or just "get some air off the top of rolling wind waves without hurting the Hyper at all. Be careful when landing that your get the board back down flat, rail to rail, and try to get the fin down first. It's not really meant to be jumped, but give it a try and see how it works for you.
On your comment:
"with straps in the most outboard, pushing with the back foot doesn't raise the nose as much as it sinks the windward rail and I go straight through the chop :-( Is there something different to slalom boards?"
You seem to missing the point here, or you were really underpowered, need to shorten your lines, or something.
To go upwind "on the fin" your entire weight must be supported by the rig.
There should be virtually no weight on your feet at all. Your legs and feet just steer the board.
So, pushing with your back foot will never "raise the nose". You set the fore and aft trim (how high the nose is raised) by your mast foot postion. For someone your size, I'd suggest keeping the mast foot in the back 1/2 of the mast slot. Putting it forward of the half way point will flatten the board too much and make the board very "sticky".
Lift and pull with your front leg/ foot and push across the top of the fin and across the top of the water with your back foot.
At no time will this pulling and pushing ever lower the upwind rail.
You really want a slight bit of lee rail on your board so the water all splashes out on the upwind side and the lee rail is pretty much in green water all the time, with not much "splash".

If you are getting back winded on your carve jibes you are flipping the sail too late and going way to far around. Try to come out of your jibes at or below a beam reach on the new tack.
Hope this helps,
6th August 2007 01:23 AM
RE: sunken mast track

Im still trying to figure out this fin pumping bit. So I would bear off, flutter pump, get front foot in, flutter pump some more, then back foot, then what? kinda wiggle the back foot to get the back of the board loose, then straighten those legs and get going? I tried it yesterday and I could not get it to work. is it like trying to get a skateboard or snowboard going with out going down a hill or pushing? that little lunge forward almost?

I was experimenting a lot with different pumping techniques and I did get some real full body pumps... these worked well, but it only worked with the 42 cm fin.. the 34 was just too small it seems.

I aslo was wondering if jumping a slalom board is any different to jumping a wave board. I sw some great ramps yesterday and I had a lot of speed. It would have been killer to just jump. Right now I am talking about jumps just clearing t he fin and small ones. This won't damage the board will it?

with straps in the most outboard, pushing with the back foot doesn't raise the nose as much as it sinks the windward rail and I go straight through the chop :-( Is there something different to slalom boards?

Thanks a lot... and y ou were right. friday I got carve jibes really well (carving part) but yesterday, it just didn't work. It seems some days you get it, others you don't... the only difference I can see is having more power, and a smaller fin. I kept getting backwinded... like carving around, then getting flattened (even before going dead downwind...)

thanks again...

4th August 2007 09:27 PM
RE: sunken mast track

Hi Thomas,
Fin pumping is where you pulse push against the fin to loosen the board up when it's a bit sticky.
It would be very similar to "flutter pumping" your sail ( and with good technique you can try both at the same time).
You just "jab" the fin slightly, not enough to raile the pressure to the point of spinout, but enough to kinda "wiggle" the back of the board which often helps the board to "unstick" and acellerate more quickly.
It needs to be done when your have both feet in the straps and the rig partially raked back and partially sheeted in.
Biggest problem many sailors have is trying to get things going too quickly. Unless you are very powered to overpowered on your rig size, you have to "manage" all the factors and work up to speed one stage at a time.
Yes, when you are powered up, it looks like all one fluid movement, but the more underpowered you are, the more you need to stretch out the time frame for each stage. It still looks like one fluid movement to someone on shore, but out on the water, you are moving from stage to stage at a rate that keeps your board accellerating.
Hope this helps,
4th August 2007 09:07 PM
RE: sunken mast track

fin pumping? what do you do there? Push against the fin like you see the formula sailors do? can you explain how you do this?

Thanks a lot,

This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT +7. The time now is 08:56 PM.