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24th September 2006 04:48 AM
crwind
RE: Apollo Vs F161

Sitka,
That's a very good post. Me too, I quite don't get all that fuss about the Olympics for windsurfing?.. I could understand the desire to get some "formula" legal, as there seem to be market there, before getting out the real light wind oriented Appolo for example, but the Olympics, no. Good point.B)
22nd September 2006 12:24 AM
sitka
RE: Apollo Vs F161

The Olympics have demonstrated they want crap, heck they are even skillful at staging a democratic crap selection. So let's all set a course to reach those lofty standards shall we, that makes a lot of sense. After all it does culminate in a few races every four years that can put even the most hardcore fan to sleep.
21st September 2006 09:39 PM
crwind
RE: Apollo Vs F161

Thx Remi,
I believe there is a market for Xlight boards for Xlight day and places, i-e guys like me will pay for that. Look at the generalisation of the "pro-model" boards in the line-up for brands like JP, Fanatic or even Mistral and Naish now. It shows that even non racer will like to have the best available in terms of rigidity and weight too.
I understand your focus for now, but maybe you guys will find time for a limited ed or "pro" model for the Appolo for example.
I also agree with you for sails. Looks like around 10m2 and optimized for light wind is the direction and best compromize , for now (weight is also a factor as 12m2 are quite heavier than 10m2).
Where I live now, we only have lacs and light wind, so I am particularly interested in Xlight wind perf and evolution.

Best regards,
21st September 2006 07:45 PM
Remi
RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Crwind,

If the isaf choose another board for the Olympic for 2012, that will a production board who have been race during one year and prove that is enough good (and also price and durability) before the decision who will be in september 2008. So that means clearly that we need to put it on the market september 2007. And make sure that the board feet the FW rules (so 8,5kgs Max)
Actualy we win more in early planing with a good shape and for sure a beter rig that we have right now on the market, the big progress have to made in this direction.
Yes a light board will help also, but do not have enough time for next year to be sure that this technology is enough good in therme of durability.
And the big question will be how much rider who don't race would like to pay double price for an early plaining board?

All the best
21st September 2006 10:42 AM
Nathan
RE: Apollo Vs F161

Not too sure what all the fuss is about, because a racer could be carrying two board to a event RIGHT NOW, its just that the boards would be from different companies, to explain.....

Example: Lets say the board company "XXX-Boards" makes a fantastic formula board (named "Light Wind Machine" this formula board is the best light wind board on the market (up to 15knots), leaves everything for dead. Lets say Starboard makes a board name "161" is the best board on the market for winning races over 15knots.

A cashed up racer who has brought "Light Wind Machine" & "161" can go to a event, determine the overall conditions for an event and register the best board for what he thinks will win him the most races.

Nathan
20th September 2006 10:30 PM
windstock
RE: Apollo Vs F161

Quote:
milk laser
Member

Posts: 6 Do you remember the years when formula was borning?
Can you remember about when the formula class was started?

Here's a little help from a rec.windsurfing post from 1993

Copy and paste

the url thing isn't working for me

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.windsurfing/browse_thread/thread/430969c72a56be6a/ac58530ed40741c7?lnk=st&q=formula+42&rnum=1&hl=en# ac58530ed40741c7


Quote:
scotty
Member

Posts: 41

By limiting the sail size, it would add balance, unless racing always occurs at 6- 11 knots. Being a small guy, getting beat by big guys sucks!!

Being a big guy, getting beat by small guys sucks!!
Small guys on four year old 9.8s have won against heavies with new 12.5s in the avarage light wind racing we have around here.

Quote:
crwind
Posted on 20-09-2006 19:52

Also, we want a board that flies in light air, not something to go to the Olympics!
So make it light, as light as possible, we will pay the price and get the light wind machine for NO racing. I think there is a market there, no?
Salut,
What do you mean when you say we?

Quote:
We are trying to make a board that can replace the RSX in London 2012. And in this case the package have to be at the same price as the curent Olympic board.

All the best


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remi
Thought this class would of learned from the last selection process to get out of the Olympic Windsurfing biz.
Maybe if you get the ISAF to publish there class specs to match what you want, and place sombody on the selection board to direct the process you could have a chance.

ISAF dosn't seem to be interested in an established class. They would rather start from zero and allow two years to build it

By 2012 the rsx could have enough particpants to really claim that there an international class (not just olympic).
That's if NP dosn't cut there losses and bail on the program after the 08s.
20th September 2006 08:52 PM
crwind
RE: Apollo Vs F161

Remi,

A bit iritating that you won't even care answering my post but address the point from others...
Another thing, please understand that with the Appolo, some of use are NOT interested in Formula class (your Q: "will that help formula class?" I don't care when it come sto Appolo.) Also, we want a board that flies in light air, not something to go to the Olympics!
So make it light, as light as possible, we will pay the price and get the light wind machine for NO racing. I think there is a market there, no?
Salut,
20th September 2006 08:52 PM
crwind
RE: Apollo Vs F161

Remi,

A bit iritating that you won't even care answering my post but address the point from others...
Another thing, please understand that with the Appolo, some of use are NOT interested in Formula class (your Q: "will that help formula class?" I don't care when it come sto Appolo.) Also, we want a board that flies in light air, not something to go to the Olympics!
So make it light, as light as possible, we will pay the price and get the light wind machine for NO racing. I think there is a market there, no?
Salut,
20th September 2006 08:46 PM
JW22
RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hello Remi,

I personally would pay a double price (once in two years from 2008 ) but I do realise that I will be a minority in that aspect. So I understand that there will be no big enhough market to go that way.

I also do not think that it will help the majority of Formual Racers (and I did not mention that as a goal of my idea), at least not in one or two years, it may so in say three or four years.

In the end, if you would be able to significantly lower the weight of the board, maintaning the current strenght of the boards and produce it in big enhough quantity's it might introduce a completely new eara.

For the olympics it might be the only way to go, cause you need to be able to plane as soon as possible and in those marginal winds weight is a significant factor, yes?

What happend to AHD was not only because of the buildingmethod but I see your point. At the same time starboard was able to make a little heavier board that was equally good performing so no one really needed to buy a AHD. If you coudl come up with that excotic Apollo lightversion (- 6kg) you probably have the new standard for lightwind windsurfing.

Would be great to have an invester who would pay for the R&D to make something like this happen. That invester should also invest in the first years of productiocosts so that the market will get enhough hunger that quantity can lower the final cost of the board. I know it can be done but one has to think out of every box (even the wallet one )

Who knows, maybe someday, I keep my fingers crossed and will enjoy every moment sailing with my current formula gear.

All the best,
JW22
20th September 2006 08:15 PM
Remi
RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi JW22,

To built a board at 6kgs it's probably possible, but the cost will be really high compare to what we have right now.
Some years ago Ahd try to do it and finaly they don't sell Formula, the price was really too expensive.

Are you ready to pay double price?

Do you think that really help the majority of Formula Racers?

We are trying to make a board that can replace the RSX in London 2012. And in this case the package have to be at the same price as the curent Olympic board.

All the best
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