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Thread: Rio 2008 vs Phantom Race 320 vs Formula in gusty wind Reply to Thread
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9th February 2008 07:08 PM
Screamer Erin

It is maybe true that you want excitement of light wind planing (which would steer you to Formula), but the thread title contains word "gusty". The most difficult thing is to evaluate how much lulls do you have on most of your sailing days, ie how steady the wind is? If you already sail an older Formula and it doesn't give you enough planing time, chances are that the newer one won't give you enough either. Sure it will lower your planing threshold a bit, but to truly maximize it you'll probably need a bigger rig ($$$$).

I've sailed a Formula for 2-3 seasons and then gave it up. Yes I've bought myself a lot of light wind fun, but there were many days when even Formula wasn't enough. Pumping >50% of the time to get/keep planing, shlogging in 3 knots for 5km, is not fun. Neither is being overpowered, which happens pretty soon in a given wind range. I believe on many spots the only answer is longer (as in 350cm) board with a dagger. I'm not saying it's your spot, but you have to estimate correctly.

Fair winds

edit: When you look at this "I have some transport distance to get to clear wind and I think need a board with CB for that reason.....
But first priority are planing mode....."
Unfortunately, it's not possible to be completely happy in both situations (at least not on the same board). Of course, moderately happy is fine ;-)
9th February 2008 06:13 PM
Unregistered PG, I can't understand why you say "every board with a centreboard is a compromise" - or rather I can't see why a board with a centreboard is any more of a compromise than a board without one.

Sure, a centreboard adds weight; but so does adding width to a Formula board, or adding any length to a hypothetical board just 1 metre long. The centreboard basically allows you to vary the fin area, depth and angle whenever you want. It's like having a fin bigger than a FW fin, that's there when you want it and goes away when you don't want it.

Sure, it adds drag on a planing reach but it's faster in non planing or marginal planing conditions upwind and on a close reach.
9th February 2008 03:47 PM
erin PG
I didn't see your post my last before one. But I see that you have many points. I even think the CB add maybe up to 5 kg and the statement of RIO S have increased from 12,3 to 14,1 kg. Differens betwen prototype and production ?

Maybe your right I should go for a slalom board, haven't tried any, but I will before I bye any new board thatever model.

BR Erland
9th February 2008 03:23 PM
erin Hi and thank’s for all good advises

James, maybe it was the rules from (ISAF) from hybrid class , I read? I’m not going for a great raceboard , just thougt that it could be nice to fit in some class if possible with a new board.

Now I have a lot of superlative of KONA (as usual) and Phantom Race 380.

Is there anybody out there who have some experience from the new RIO 2008
and Phantom Race 320, please let me take part of it.

- Erland
9th February 2008 02:54 PM
PG Erin,

It sure sounds like if you would be craving the exitement of the Formula, or of a large slalom board. With that in mind it is 95% sure that you always will be disappointed in any board that features a centerboard.

The centerboard seems to add some 2 kg in weight, and of course it causes drag. Every CB equipped board is a compromise, and it sounds as if you would not be willing to go that route.

I would guess that the Race 320 and the KONA (315 with the steptail in the air) will feel and taste similarly. Decent glide in light wind, but a heavy feeling in planing conditions (but may objectively still be as fast as any freeride out there). I understand that it is this heavy feeling that you dislike.

With regards to the Rio I do think we are seeing some marketing bullshit. It is positive that starboard has lengthened the board from a barge to something that is closing in on 3 meters. This of course does produce more of a gliding feeling, but I cannot imagine it would get the same glide as a 320-350 board. And while planing it is exiting in the same way as the KONA or the Phantom 301. You need to remember that Starboard has used the same kind of "a revolutionary high performance board" with almost every baord that has just lasted a year in the lineup. That is how marketing unfortunately works...

If the Formula is too physical then get one of the 85 cm wide slaloms. I think that will be a good fit.
9th February 2008 04:16 AM
Ken Erin & SteveC,

Yep, a down haul tool is essential for the large formula sails, even though the most recent editions have less down haul force than the older models. I also have easy-uphauls on my 11.0 & 9.2, and will get another for my 8.4. Luckly, I rarely have to uphaul since I don't drop the sails very often.

I have adjustable outhauls on all my booms for my 6.6, 7.6, 8.4, 9.2 & 11.0. Luckly, I have a dedicated boom for each sail, although a couple are probably 10 yrs old or more.

To prevent an injury, I do jumping jacks and trunk rotations for a couple of minutes before rigging, and then some more with stretching before I go out on the water. You do what you have to do to have fun.
9th February 2008 02:21 AM
steveC Hi erin,

I think there is little doubt that Ken's recommendation regarding developing a strength building regimen is a good plan for us older sailors. At almost 59, I'm beginning to believe that I will have start a weight or conditioning training program to strengthen my back, as I find it becoming easier and easier to tweak it.

However, I did want to emphasize the importance of using a mechanical downhaul tool. Probably about 10 years ago I started have back problems that I think were nerve related, as I developed pain at my right hip and along my lower right torso, and it started becoming increasingly difficult to walk normally. I ultimately discovered that the stress I was putting on my right side while downhauling my sails was the source of my problems. Although I had no problems of any kind for many years earlier, the affects of age started getting the better of me. By regularly using a mechanical downhaul tool, my problem literally disappeared.
9th February 2008 02:17 AM
James Erin- The Rio probably planes a knot or two earlier than the Kona because it's wider. But based on my experience riding wide hybrid boards like the Mistral Prodigy, which is similar in shape to the Rio, I think the narrower Kona is smoother and more comfortable both in gusty wind and in really strong wind. But I guess you have to use what will fit in your car.

The max width for raceboards is 70 cm, and the max length is 380 cm. The best board to win in the raceboard class would be a true 380 cm long raceboard like the Phantom 380 or Mistral Superlight II, but a slightly shorter longboard like the 70 x 350 cm Kona can do OK in those races. A wide hybrid like the Rio will be at a disadvantage unless the wind is strong enough to be fully planing around the course.

Good luck with your choice.

PS- That isn't me in the video- it's a friend from Canada. But I do windsurf in the winter here in Virginia, where it's usually 7-15 degrees C.
9th February 2008 12:21 AM
erin Ken,
I had the same diagnos and got the same "medicin" for my back problem as you, I think.
No disc problem and almost normal for my age the doc told me but I still have some pain.
I now use easy-uphal ,adjustble harness lines and started to get used to adjustable outhal too. Much to handle but also get extra safety then I'm out with my 9,5 and now you have inspired me to go even bigger.
BR Erland
8th February 2008 06:56 PM
erin James,
yes maybe KONA can do the work but perhaps RIO can do nearly the same in gusty wind and better in steady stronger wind? And it’s shorter and fit in my car and have the same finsystem, Tuttle, as my other boards.
Btw you mention the Phantom 380 , are you wellknown with the rules of raceboard class? Is it max. 1005 wide, L 2700-3800 and min. 14 kg ? I told that I not competing but if I have a chance to participate in local “funraces” of course I do and it that case it might be something to take in consideration.

Nice videos, specially that in the ice bay. You are a real Viking.
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