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8th July 2008 08:14 PM
pierrec45 Hu oh, we got CT cranked up now...

Regarding SailQuick's post:

> have no resemblence to windsurfing

What do you mean, you want the Olympics to be about guys driving in with the trailer-quiver, one sail size for each knot? That's the modern approach to windsurfing, you're right. Personally, I find it closer to a Tupperware party than Olympics.

> require great skill from the competitors to use

You're absolutely right there too. Any one-design class or restricted class in terms of sails allowed are very, very demanding. None of that "the wind is too strong, I'll come in to get the size-down sail until I can hold it". You fight the rig at hand and the conditions.

If I wanted to be an equipment snob like some posters, I'd say only those who have successfully competed at some level can really appreciate that aspect of the sport, but I won't. ;-)

[Of course, none of that answers the question: should there be windsurfing at Olympics - that's a different question.]
8th July 2008 07:15 PM
C249 Just to make it clear; I love windsurfing, which has been a big part of my life for many years. Formula, slalom, freestyle, waves, racing, they are all incredible.

But the sheer mind-blowing arrogance and sneering superiority complex of some of the posters around here makes me ashamed, in some ways, to be part of this sport.....no, actually I'm annoyed at the "me too" guys who wandered in, after the sport was well and truly created, and then started to apply their own narrow-minded restrictive attitudes, and have the sheer hide to try to rename a whole sport to suit their own limited vision. This sport used to have an Aloha spirit that encompassed everyone..... that's largely gone and its lack is hurting the sport.

In this thread, many people have thrown barbs at the boat and other sailors, accusing them of some cliche'd attitudes. God knows where these people get these ideas from - it seem that their concept of boat sailors comes from Caddyshack, which is probably the most intellectual piece of media they have ever been exposed to.

In fact, these "tossers" are out there making carbon-fibre foilers and other brilliant devices in their backyards. They allow a wide choice, from strict one designs (for those who want true sailor-on-sailor competition without taking the easy way out by buying an advantage) to classes that are much more open to experimentation than any windsurfer class. There are guys out there on boats who are making and designing 7kg carbon hydrofoiling hulls in their backyards. They don't get scared by people who dare to have different tastes and abilities.

If the boat guys were such idiots, they wouldn't attract so many thousands of young kids....it's the boat guys and OD guys who attract fleets of hundreds, it's the other guys who get a derisory 20 or so to a "worlds". Guess what, the kids have voted, you've lost.

But of course, facts like that don't bother the empty heads of those who would rather pop up an empty cliche for them to abuse, because it inflates their own superiority.

Is it too scary for some people to respect those who enjoy sailing on the water in other ways?

For heaven's sake, can't we have some respect for our fellow sailors, no matter what they sail?
8th July 2008 07:02 PM
C249 Is that the SailQuick who raced with the "tossers" at a yacht club (GLYC) at Easter? Did you call them "tossers" to their face?

If they are "tossers" why do they achieve so much for their sport in terms of numbers of competitors, sailors and juniors?

Do you feel it's okay to use volunteers to run events you sail in, and then abuse them with a term like "tossers"?

If you are that Sail Quik, how did it feel to be beaten by ancient One Designs in a strong-wind race when you were using your fast gear?

If a board can beat your fast gear around the course in 20-30 knots, how can you say it's not "windsurfing"?

In fact, how can any logical person claim that light-wind sailing, which is the activity that was first called "windsurfing" and that created the sport of windsurfing, is not windsurfing?
8th July 2008 05:23 AM
Sail Quick I reckon they should just use a wooden power line pole for a board (paint it white to keep the yacht club tossers happy) and use bed sheet tied to a broom stick for a sail.

This will satisfy all the criteria as the gear will be cheap, require great skill from the competitors to use, stupid and have no resemblence to windsurfing...in other words, exactly what it is now but much simpler so everyone should be happy.
4th July 2008 11:14 AM
Unregistered
FORMULA FOR THE OLYMPICS ( no more bla,bla )

one desing equipment is allways back by the manufacture, as soon the manufacture pull the plug out this class it dies down. open formula format it give chance to all manufacture to jump in the race for evolution and create better equipment.

first IMCO, then RSX, then KONA, and now BIG TECHNO, and tomorrow ONE DESING PADDLE BOARD .

this is just manufacture pushing to sell their products

FORMULA FOR THE OLYMPICS.
3rd July 2008 11:57 PM
Unregistered
Windsurfing in the Olympics is a universal benefit

... so windsurfing in the Olympics does nothing for the rest of the sport!

Well, that's a pretty short sighted and ill informed comment.

The fact is that windsurfing is practiced in more than 70 countries round the world and maintains its place in the Olympic sailing family due to that in any wind speed where racing takes place, it is dynamic and media friendly.

How many of the comments in this discussion have been made by women? In fact, how many women regularly race FW or PWA? Take a look at the Olympic Class Fleet.... 80 women raced in NZL at the RS:X Worlds.

Do you imagine that if windsurfing in the Olympic Regatta was not considerd a success, that it would now be selected for both boys and girls in the Youth Olympics for 2010?

Do you imagine that having windsurfing in both the Youth Olympics and the Olympic Games, does not bring development funding into the sport?

Gonzalo Costa Hoevel (ARG) is one such windsurfer who is now successful in FW who came out of the IMCO Youth Programme.

Windsurfing in the Olympics is of universal benefit to the sport of windsurfing. Mistral thought so. Neil Pryde thinks so and obviously Svein Rasmussen thinks so...
28th June 2008 07:09 PM
C249 WARNING - LONG POST.

Dan, good posts. It's great that US Sailing is getting behind windsurfing. Maybe they can introduce to our sport the same thinking that makes other forms of sailing so appealing to kids. It would be wonderful if the success of classes like the Optimist (1900 paid-up US kids in the class) was replicated in boards. It would be great if windsurfing could recover the strength it had before it became so fixated on just planing.... the fleets are so much smaller these days so obviously that doesn't work because.

Out of interest, I'm trying to build up a picture of what people are actually racing. It seems that the reality is different from the hype. Here's some results; further info would be very interesting.

British national circuit - Techno 293 (junior hybrid) =145 entries, Formula Windsurfer =84 entries, Raceboard = 80 entries, RSX hybrid =59 entries, Kona One = 11 entries (new class)

British Team 15 (for kids 15 years and under -requires centreboard for zone racing, aims to develop kids to sail Techno hybrid) = about 80 clubs. Each team can put up to 15 kids into a zone-level race. That's something like 800 kids on boards with centreboards.

US Nationals 08 - 17 FW entries, 2 FE entries, Raceboards 25 entries, Hybrid 5 entries, Sports Fleet 12 entries.

US ranking list 07 - FW 85, Open (inc. raceboard, Kona, etc) 80; Kona One Design 48; Hybrid 29; FE 24.

Australian national titles, average fleet last 2 seasons; Windsurfer One Design 32; Raceboard - 31.5; FW - 25; RSX= 6?; Junior One NSW titles (biggest kid's titles as nationals were cancelled due to algal bloom) = 15. Note FW is usually bigger.

French national ranking lists:

Techno 293 - 525 boys, 168 girls
Raceboard - 206 men, 82 women
Funboard - 108 men, 18 women
Formula - 106 men, 11 women.
Kona One - 401 (I think a lot of these people just borrowed a Kona for a regatta)

German windsurfing association rankings

Raceboard (longboard) = 130 sailors
Junior Longboard = 95 sailors
DWC Slalom/Formula/wave/freestyle = 70 sailors including 8 under 20 years.
Kona One = 64
Techno 293 OD = 25 sailors (growing)
RSX = 25 sailors
IMCO = 15 sailors
Mistral Junior = 5 to 10 sailors

JUNIOR WORLDS ENTRIES

2007 Techno 293 OD hybrid worlds (under 17)= 166 entries (I think that the entries were restricted due to demand exceeding the available spots).
2007 FE Junior Worlds = 10 entries.
2007 FW Junior Worlds = 12 entries

YOUTH WORLDS

2007 FE Youth worlds = 5 entries.
2007 FW Youth Worlds = 48 entries.
2007 RSX Youth Worlds = 65 entries
2007 Raceboard Youth Euros = 34 entries. (no Youth worlds as the Worlds were in South America)

Obviously South America, Asia and much of Europe are not included.

It's interesting to see the classes that people are actually racing, rather than the classes that get hyped. Roughly totalling the above, we see;

1029 junior hybrid sailors (Techno 293)
625 junior Longboard sailors (assuming 500 T-15 sailors on longboards)
556 Kona One/Windsurfer One sailors (as noted, many probably borrowed boards).
405 FW sailors (an underestimate, one assumes, although the class does not list more than 100 sailors in any country)
320 adult Raceboard sailors (not counting the French as they may be RSX sailors, but assuming 50% of all US Open sailors are raceboarders)
195 adult hybrid sailors (not counting the French RSX/Raceboard sailors)
100 Youth Hybrid sailors (an underestimate as the national rankings are not broken down)
68 FW Youth/Junior
41 FE Youth/Junior (assuming all US FE sailors are Juniors or Youth)

I don't actually personally like the Techno as it doesn't suit local requirements, but it seems to be doing very well so it certainly does work. The Kona One is being heavily promoted which may distort the figures, but then again so are most of the other classes. This list ignores the Raceboard and FW open, masters and womens championships.

BTW, about "the RS:X (and the IMCO before it) is the only Olympic sailing class with TWO events : one for women and another for men! No other sailing craft is represented twice in the Olympic regatta, only windsurfers!!"

Actually, the 470 class has both women and men's Olympic events. So does the Laser; the men sail the standard version, the women sail the Radial which is identical but for the bottom mast section and the sail.208+60+
28th June 2008 04:43 AM
Unregistered http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...014197,00.html
28th June 2008 04:28 AM
pierrec45 > non-planning part of windsurfing doesn't not represent what's exciting
> and at the top level

The top-level of racing is the top level.

What may be exciting to the viewers and the gentiles, what may bring people to the sport (which personally is what I would like the modern Olympics to promote as there are too many passive people in our society), that's a different question.
28th June 2008 01:12 AM
sergio k Dan, this sounds really great that US Sailing is throwing it's support behind windsurfing,
we need all the help we can get grow the sport, special youth segment,
my hope though, that they realize that we, as a sport, evolved over 20+ years and
non-planning part of windsurfing doesn't not represent what's exciting and at the top level,
and also that any OD would always be a compromise. It's the cheapest sailing sport,
and the reasons that non-OD in some other sailing classes would inflate cost of equipment doesn't not apply to windsurfing based on it's current racing history.
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