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15th October 2009 11:40 PM
Unregistered The Banc Populaire and Hydroptere are completely different craft. Hydroptere uses a development of Bruce foils; where leeward foil gives lift and windward foil pulls back into water to counteract heeling. If you look at foil on BP its a dagger is 90 degrees to hull whereas foil on Hydroprtere is pointing back in intowards boat.(45 degrees?)(Leaning in that way means that because of leeway (under sail) it "pulls" hull into water.(when its windward foil, reverses on other tack) When flying its balanced on rudder (foiled) leeward foil and heeling force of sail. (Hydroptere also fills its windward "float" with water)

Its one big balancing act with tons of force going through beams !!!
15th October 2009 11:25 PM
Floyd Davide
I sort of agree with you but water condition is obviously relative to craft size. The water condition for last record (With Hydroptere) was (for Hydroptere)almost flat.Plus bigger craft can use deeper foils to get out of the "rough" part of the sea and consequently is sailing on perfectly flat water.(Its hulls are not in the water from 20knots) (Another benefit of foils) Problem arises when foil comes close enough to surface to aerate; which is problem with smaller foiling craft craft. We dont disqualify Hydroptere for finding flat water (under surface) ???!!! The the cost of doing so is prohibitive for 99.999% of sailors. Dont get me wrong Hydroptere is fantastic and well deserves its record and I would love to sail on it.But (IMHO) it should be a free for all with no rules. If you can sail/kite 500m on water at 55knots you should take the record.Kite board;windsurfer or foiler !!!
15th October 2009 11:08 PM
Floyd Hi Papounet
Think you`ll find Hydroptere is not a single craft but a series of crafts designed and built with specific records in mind. The craft recently used in in 500m and 100m records would not be used for "passage " sailing records. (Not in its current guise of foiling rudder and foiling amas;with water balast exchange) (apart from perhaps channel hop; on selected days)
(Imagine transfering ballast every tack; I diont think even Banc Populaire (a non foiling Tri ; which unusual to non-foiling Tri`s raises its middle hull to gain extremely large anti heeling moment.; only thing in coomon with Hydroptere)


I dont think Hydroptere 500m record holder will ever be seen mid Atlantic ???
15th October 2009 10:37 PM
davide
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
“For every record attempt on a WSSRC approved course, there must be a minimum depth of water, which is defined as follows.
At the time of the run in question, the shallowest part of the course must be covered by water with a depth of at least half the static immersed beam of the craft involved, or 10cm, whichever is the greater. (Guidance note) T

I don’t now how they will define the depth requirement for kite since I don’t think that kite board floats, at least not with kiteboarder on it.
Yep, At Lüderitz water depth is "10 cm" although the runs are so close to shore that probably water gets even shallower. The rule was a compromise from last year, and frankly I find it a bit absurd. 10 cm is ankle depth and to call "sailing" sailing in conditions in which you cannot even swim is kind of funny. Too bad that such a rule is in the books, I personally would have been much more stringent, and use maybe the world average height for men or women (1.6-1.8 meters) as a minimal depth.

Sailboats are now in even deeper water and it is a gigantic breakthrough.
15th October 2009 09:08 PM
Papounet Hydroptere as not been built for 500 m speed record, but for médium distance open water speed records.
"February 9, 2005: The symbolic cross-Channel record by airman Louis Blériot in 1909 is smashed by Hydroptère in 34 minutes and 24 seconds with an average speed of 33 knots."

It's the same ship but modified for short distance, that break the wall.

For "Banque populaire V" not a foiler, but look at the retractable center-board.
These ships are not built for absolute speed records, but they can run at an incredible speed even in rough sea.
Next step, around the world between november 2009 and january 2010.

15th October 2009 08:39 PM
Unregistered There are new rules regarding min depth of water for record attempt.

“For every record attempt on a WSSRC approved course, there must be a minimum depth of water, which is defined as follows.
At the time of the run in question, the shallowest part of the course must be covered by water with a depth of at least half the static immersed beam of the craft involved, or 10cm, whichever is the greater. (Guidance note) To define the depth requirement, the craft or board involved should be afloat and the widest part of the hull or hulls touching the water should be measured. In the case of a multihull, the widest hull is measured or hydrofoil if fitted. In the case of an event involving a number of competing craft, the WSSRC Observer can announce at the commencement of the event what the minimum depth requirement will be.”

I don’t now how they will define the depth requirement for kite since I don’t think that kite board floats, at least not with kiteboarder on it.
15th October 2009 08:28 PM
Floyd Hi Papounet
Yes I agree those speeds are damned impressive and even more so in conditions encountered but they aren`t the record. Point to remember with Hydroptere is that it easily doubles wind speed; believe on record day it was gusting to 32 knots ;windy but by no means howling . (especially for that region) Its the efficiency of Hydroptere which is trully astounding;resultant of foiling ???

Hydroptere (reputedly) has topped out at 60 knots +; they are now working towards breaking 100km/h barrier. Not sure wether craft you mentioned are foilers but I doubt it.(Dont think the long voyage tri`s are)
Hydroprere(the one built for 500 m and 1000m records) definitely is. Wonder if way forward for us is foiling ??? Wonder what a windsurfer could do if we could emulate this efficiency in ???

Do you really want to make a cup of tea whilst trying to break record ????
15th October 2009 08:21 PM
Papounet Thats false !
We have the worst economic systeme off all EU & every one says that UK have the best...

French people are very very poor, but they have the best man for the Job ( not Sarko of course )
English have the best financial place, with a lot of money in traders pockets.
15th October 2009 08:09 PM
Unregistered What an excellent idea !
It should obviously be an Anglo-French effort with Guy Cribb and Antoine.
We will provide a nice windy location like the Falklands.
The French have lots of money so they can pay....
Simple really.
15th October 2009 07:08 PM
viking Yes, I can be said that the Hydroptere record was beatten in open water.

So, why windsurfing does not seem able to participate to this record hunt? I see one main reason: money. The record of Antoine Albeau can be improved (it was not make by really ideal conditions: choppy canal, run too downwind a absolute freezing cold) but windsurfers would need a big amount of cash to do so to allow our champions to totally dedicate their time to this hunt - as the kiters do. We need to find the good spot (massive wind everyday) and to built there the good infrastructure and then stick Albeau 6 months there... But who would pay for this?
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