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16th June 2011 03:46 PM
nakaniko I'm a bit surprised about some statements over Hot Rod masts from Hotsails. I use Fiberspars on my full quiver of HSM and I get very good shape both with sdm and rdm. If the sails would have been designed over so strange masts like told I don't think I could get the seme result using my Fiberspar, I should get very different answer when using f.e. Fire 4,5 or Smack 5,5, shaped on the Hot Rods 400 and 430.
About GPS I've never used them, I avoid cambered sails, but I know that only in 2009 they were rdm-only, now they are provided with another set of cambers for sdm masts, they tell me; and so for masts not produced from HSM...
In any case nowaday every sail brand suggest only their own masts. but on the specs of HSM sails booklet is clearly told that you can use successfully other various brands, sometime even suggesting what brands gives good answer (and so you can understand what brands don't).
This was intended like a post about sdm masts but in defence of HSM I want all to know that I've casually met HSM sails but since that time I've never found the same quality, durability, and easiness of use (also with different masts!).
Coming back to the topic, I thnk that a waveproof mast has to be stronger, so they have to build it with a thicker section. But not necessarily in reduced section, imho. So I don't know what were the reasons to change the standard. Anyhow rdm is nowaday a standard like sdm
16th June 2011 05:49 AM
Unregistered Having used my hotsails gps 7,3 with hotrod 460 quite a bit I can say that i really liked it. HSM build quality and ease of use were great. Then switched to challenger sails and a north platinum mast recently and can comment that I miss the build quality of HSM compared to challenger sails. Even tough the HSM hotrod combo was very nice to sail i think that I can tell a difference that the NS platinum mast feels a lot stiffer. I also think the term SDM is really missleading, it means that you can use a sdm extensiorner but different brands use different amount of drop shape so camber fit can be a problem. The rdm was great for free sailing but I belive that an sdm is the way to get best performance for larger sails (460).
13th June 2011 03:19 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
We should be able to rely on IMCS for comparison. We obviously cant !!!
The IMCS system is perfectly reliable. The problem is that manufacturers lie about the bend curves of their masts. If everyone told the truth and stated the real stiffness and real bend curve numbers of their masts then you could rely on the IMCS.
re hot rods, they are stiffer based than most (not all) other RDM masts but they still have more bend low down than the majority of SDM masts. They also bend very differently in the different sizes, the 430 for example being very flex top but the 400 no where near as much,but quite stiff overall and the 370 being very soft.
11th June 2011 10:16 PM
Unregistered There`s no comparison between Hot Rods and any other RDM !!! (Probably Naish ?)
They are nearer in stiffness/performance than any other RDM to SDM ???
Hot Sails dont recommend any other mast apart from Hot Rod with any sail needing 460 !!(for GPS)
All other RDM`s too flexible ???(Especially in base ?)

Davide`s perference is not to RDM`s ; its to Hot Rods. !!!
All others dislike of RDM`s is not against Hot Rods but "normal" RDM`s.

Perhaps others should try Hot Rods (But they are 328 each !!! ouch) before they judge.???
Perhaps Davide should try other RDM`s before he judges others assesments of RDM`s ???

Reckon Tushingham site summed it up best ! (But thats not Hot Rods !!!)

Sailing gets more complicated every year !!!

We get further and further away from standardisation !!!

We should be able to rely on IMCS for comparison. We obviously cant !!!

Personally I have also found my RDM`s (Amex)more flexible than expected.
11th June 2011 07:44 PM
Floyd Standard diameter (SDM) or reduced diameter (RDM)?

RDM – Advantages:

•Thinner in the hands, many prefer this feel in transitions where the mast is held.
•Thicker wall, more durable
•Relatively softer in the middle for a springy feel
•More suited to wave & freestyle applications


SDM – Advantages:

•Lighter for a given stiffness
•Range of top section stiffness available for speed/slalom applications
•First choice for camber induced sails
•More locked in feel with better top end performance
•More suited to freeride, slalom, racing and speed applications.
•Floats better for easier water starting


Generally speaking it’s obvious that the SDM is the natural choice for larger sails, for speed, slalom, and light/medium wind freeride. Conversely, the RDM is popular with wave and freestyle sailors.


Lifted from Tushingham site !!!
11th June 2011 07:21 PM
Floyd The Grand Prix Speed is designed to be used only with RDM masts .

The GPS is designed for the Hot Rod RDM mast, but is SDM compatible, supplied with an extra set of cambers.

Both above comments taken from Hot Sails site. Same sail,same year,one in main web part other in PDF rigging guide !!!

Not very helpful !!!
11th June 2011 07:00 PM
Floyd
Industry Standard ???

There is an industry standard. Its called SDM. Standard Diameter Mast.(or there used to be!)
11th June 2011 06:14 PM
nakaniko For sure I never wanted to cause an argument between us windsurfers, I only wanted to tell what nowday few people tell, that SDM in some situations have some advantages in the most common situations for us windsurfers, that is to say free sailng in bays and lakes; for sure strength and handling in waves are best in RDM.
Davide, as I can read on the instructions booklets given with "our" (fantastic) HSM sails, JH tells that we can use on them both SDM and RDM, changing the sail response that is more steady and bump&jump with sdm and more loose and forgiving with rdm. So I simply do both things, and because of the well known lack of often wave conditions of the unlucky north east of Italy, at the end are the SDM that are mostly used: 16 days of sailing, 16 sdms days.
As told, selling the SDM I would have get 100-150 euro for three masts which had total retail price of about 1.000 euro, so choice of keeping them was obvious. And so I have a spare mast in case of a breackage.
I know that the more the time pass, the less easier is that sailmaker keep on making sail really compatible with SDM, but this imho is a mistake, as masts can lasts for 20 years and more, so this way you close the door to a lot of people wanting to learn windsurf end buying stuff used at cheap price, like on much places in the world. I don't think sending out of market the SDM would help windsurfing, imho...
HSM are really compatible with SDM, other brand's sail they tell me that trying to rig them - even stated compatible - on a SDM is a nightmare (some Simmer's f.e.). Also between my 2008 HSM the difference is noticeable, little hard with Fires, good with Smacks, very good with the Superfreak (because it's 8,0?)
So, as seems to be clear that SDMs stil their advantages in many situations and for some kind of riders, why not keeping the compatiblity? We are the ones that finally cause the choiches of the brands, so imho we have to choos brands that give this opportunity, leaving the others in the stores unsold!
BTW, unreg, I don't find real unpleasantries in Davide's words, it's simply a point of wiew.
11th June 2011 06:02 PM
Unregistered They dont suit my Rocks either !!! And they are supposed to !!!
11th June 2011 06:00 PM
Unregistered And Davides` unpleasantries ???

"and it is really a no brainer which one to choose in the waves or B&J."

"and if a mast feel too soft with a lot of extension for a 105Kg it just means ... it is the wrong mast for the application"

"I personally wish RDMs were the industry standard: this sport can use some simplification! "

"Whatever ... you are 105Kg and you are basing your conclusion on one mast that does not fit you."

"It is the thickness that makes RDMs masts so strong"

"sails do not rig more flat on a RDM (or fatter on a SDM, sigh ..). "

"BTW to talk of RDM vs SDM is actually silly."

No wonder Floyd was a bit unpleasant !!!
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