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29th September 2011 10:10 PM
Farlo
Why is carbon so expensive?

Yesterday I was in Stuttgart. Next hall was a trade show on composite materials. During a break I could discuss with some of the guys. They told me that demand from China and South America notably is putting extreme pressure on all manufacturers. They also said that raw material (PAN) but also resins and other oil based stuff involved in carbon fiber processing have seen an increase of 30% last year. One added that it generates much more pollution than let's say metal work (admittedly you must consider the full product life cycle). Anyway it looks like high prices are here to stay.
6th September 2011 06:58 PM
Farlo Sure, after trying a North Platinum and a Nautix Jumbo (supposedly very stiff as well) it's pretty obvious that the rig feels more nervous with the carbon boom. Now is the flex such a bad thing, as long as it doesn't affect the profile of the sail too much? You may appreciate it after long hours/long distances. Masts of various carbon content have the same static flex but different dynamics. Is it the same for booms (i.e. combination of static/dynamic flex)?

PS: the NXtrem tested in German Surf Magazine is the regular alu version, not the hybrid one. That's why it sits between the NS Silver and NP X3. I wonder why Nautix discontinued the hybrid version. Will ask them at the next Salon Nautique.
6th September 2011 03:29 AM
Jean-Marc By comparison, this is how an all-aluminum boom (North Silver) is flexing under load while windsurfing in real life :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcEP0cJjrEA

The boom is way softer all over the arm tubes (especially when pumping the sail) than a carbon boom. Pretty obvious about how an all-carbon and an all-aluminum boom do flex in real life as compared to lab test results...

Cheers !

JM
6th September 2011 02:39 AM
Jean-Marc How much do you think your carbon boom is flexing under load while windsurfing in real life ?

Check this video out to discover how the tail of a NP X9 boom is bending under load :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=0y87AgBBxMo

Quite impressive indeed..., especially considering that the sail is quite small (i.e., Overdrive 7.0 m2) with a boom lenght < 2 m long.

Other boom's tails look like stiffer than other, especially one with white/black/red stripes...:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=zakHJEje9OQ

Cheers !

JM
30th August 2011 10:29 PM
UnregisteredFloyd I know everybody thinks I`m Mr Cynical but dont think the price has anything to do with the cost of production.... Its to do with what the market will stand... There is no way on earth a carbon boom can be worth 800+ but if sailors are willing to pay it then it will be asked !!! But if carbon booms last so long manufacturers will go out of business..... Planned obselesence and all that....

Plus .... My knew Amex Carbon isnt as stiff (or heavy) as my 5 year old one... Perhaps they will start breaking more now ????
30th August 2011 02:42 PM
Farlo
Why is carbon so expensive?

Hi again, finally I took the NX-Black as I could not find a long enough (and cheap enough) used carbon boom. This leads me to another question: why is carbon so expensive? For instance today Nautix carbon's are TEN times more expensive than their basic alu booms. In the past the price difference was not so huge. Moreover older booms are looked for because "they were putting much more carbon at the time".

The usual explanation is "high demand from emerging countries" but this sounds like BS. Carbon is one of the most abundant material on the planet and there is no way we'll get ever short of it. I suspect the current price level to be greatly artificial because we have been convinced that carbon is sooo much better and we are ready to pay a lot more. I know this is an old topic and my purpose is not to complain, however do you have any idea of the reason(s) why is carbon so expensive?
8th August 2011 12:17 AM
Farlo Hi Sergio, I need some extra length to plug the cambers on my Naish GP. The North may be a bit short so I will check anyway. My question was more about sailing with max extension. I've been told to keep a margin of ~20 cm on aluminium booms. Carbon is much stiffer of course, however I would not like to break such a beautiful piece of hardware.
7th August 2011 09:52 PM
sergio k
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farlo View Post
One more advice please. I've found a NP X6 200-250 and a North Platinum 170-220. The North is more expensive but a lot stiffer/lighter and would cover most of my sails. My dealer tells me there is no problem to use a full carbon boom at its max extension but I'm still hesitating. On my biggest sail I need 2.20 for rigging and then 2.16 max for sailing. Do you thing it is OK and will not affect durability? Thank you in advance
not sure what you mean by rigging max, but if sail max 216 and your boom is 220 max, you should be fine. I would check, just in case, if boom is wide enough
7th August 2011 01:41 AM
Farlo One more advice please. I've found a NP X6 200-250 and a North Platinum 170-220. The North is more expensive but a lot stiffer/lighter and would cover most of my sails. My dealer tells me there is no problem to use a full carbon boom at its max extension but I'm still hesitating. On my biggest sail I need 2.20 for rigging and then 2.16 max for sailing. Do you thing it is OK and will not affect durability? Thank you in advance
28th July 2011 01:36 AM
Floyd I used to break aluminium booms regularly;one a season !!! Stopped using them 5 years ago and not had any breakages since. (Use Amex Carbon Pro)

IMO carbon booms work out cheaper and make sails more stable;especially bigger ones. Give more peace of mind too. Dont think they are as light .(Amex arent anyhow)

I`ll never go back to aluminium booms. Lets face it we stopped using aluminium masts years ago ???
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