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22nd January 2007 08:07 AM
GEM
RE: Light but Durable lightwind Cam sail - does it exist?

Quote:
Windman
At home, lay your sail out on the ground and attach a loop of 2mm rope to the material in the top of the sail that holds the male mast plug. There should be enough room to have the rope laying off to one side of the mast plug, not disturbing it. You need about 50 mm of 2mm rope length from the top of the sail to the figure ???8????? knot you tie off the 2mm rope with.

Also purchase a cheap screwdriver which is about 30cm long and a cheap hammer.

Before de-rigging, pound the screwdriver through the loop at the top of the sail (best done with the side of the hammer, just in case you miss the screwdriver). When the screwdriver is fully into the ground, walk around the sail, undoing the outhaul and the boom. Remove the boom from the sail.

Walk to the mast end of the sail and SLOWLY let off your outhaul. When the outhaul is fully off, twist the mast back and forth, at the same time pulling the mast out of the luff sleeve.

The mast should come straight out of the sleeve. At the same time none of the monofilm panels should be crunched up, preventing your creasing problem when de-rigging.

The length of the screwdriver usually will hold the sail, even in sand.

I have a variant of that which is somewhat more permanent than a piece of line, as long as there is a section of webbing coming out of the masthead (like on most of my sails).

What I do is use a flame to heat a nail or something and burn a hole through the webbing, about 5 cm from the end. Then, using BRASS grommet rings and grommet setting tools, pound the grommet and form it into the hole in the webbing. This will provide you with a permanent hole in the peak of the sail with which to use a stake (or phillips head screwdriver) to anchor the peak of the sail while you extract the mast. If you have a friend to help de-rig, you don't need these tricks, but if you de-rig yourself, it is simply NOT POSSIBLE to get the mast out without excessively folding / crinkling the sail. This is where 85% of the cracks come from; another 10% come from inadequately rolling the sail into a tight bundle for storage; a mere 5% come from use / misuse on the water (my rough guesses on the relative percentages).
22nd January 2007 01:59 AM
Phill104
RE: Light but Durable lightwind Cam sail - does it exist?

Quote:
Ola_H

Going back to the original question, I know of no "extra durable" cam sail.
The sails made by Matthew at demon sails are made with "pentex/polyester/kevlar cloth mix with 6 Roll/Wrapped pre-preg Carbon tube battens" and have been poven to be almost indestructable while light. Like any custom board they do cost though.

http://www.demonsails.co.uk/
21st January 2007 05:35 PM
RobSwift
RE: Light but Durable lightwind Cam sail - does it exist?

Quote:
Roger
Tears and cracks/creases only affect the damaged area where the reinforcements are cut/broken, and the damage does not propagate further across the entire panel of the sail.
Unfortunately, though, (and this was pointed out to us at the beach by a lady who has tons of sail repair experience) the x-ply doesn't hold repair tape as well as smooth monofilm. I've repaired holes in x-ply and had to sew the patch on as the adhesive didn't hold by itself. A monofilm panel when cut will rip if you continue to use it in the wind. However, if you can contain the damage, a small hole isn't hard to patch with cellophane packing tape.
Quote:
Roger
But I agree that you may be taping simple creases in your Tush sails that are nothing more than a cosmetic problem.
Most of us only use tape on a sail where there is an actual hole that extends all the way through the material.
The tape is there to hold the cut panel to it's original shape (as much as possible) and to prevent the tear from propagating further across the panel.
Hope this helps,
Sometimes I give an area of monofilm that has either been creased or stretched a patch as an extra layer of repair material will re-enforce the area. However, most sailors don't do that as you stated.
21st January 2007 02:43 AM
Guest
RE: Light but Durable lightwind Cam sail - does it exist?

Check out Aerotech Sails.
http://aerotechsails.com
VMG & Rapid Fire are cammed sails featuring 100% grid construction for the ultimate in durability and UV resistance.
20th January 2007 03:21 PM
Ola_H
RE: Light but Durable lightwind Cam sail - does it exist?

Some rice rigging tips there.

Going back to the original question, I know of no "extra durable" cam sail. However, the sail brand I use, make a no cam freeride in bigger sizes, the Hot Sails Maui Speed. This sail is made in two versions, a normal monofim version and a full Xply version. After many years of developement of the XP version they got it to where weight difference is very small. Needless to say, the XP is A LOT more durable and especially handles the wrinking issue much, much better. Maybe somee brand could learn something and make a similar cam sail?

Another interesting sail is Hots pure speed sail, the Superspeed. This is a wide pocket no cam sail that is as stable as a full cam race sail. No much bottom end though. The interesting thing about it in relation to this discussion is that it rigs easier than even a wave sail. The wide pocket makes mast instertion (and removal) very easy and then you just pull it down and tie on the boom. It jibes like a dream to, in many senses better than a wave sail since it luffs completely but still have all those batten stabilizing the sail.

Again, none of these sails may be relevant to you, but both could maybe inspire other brands to think in new direction.
19th January 2007 11:09 AM
Windman
RE: Light but Durable lightwind Cam sail - does it exist?

Good morning, Paul,

Many of the sailors above have offered some excellent suggestions and the following might also help.

At home, lay your sail out on the ground and attach a loop of 2mm rope to the material in the top of the sail that holds the male mast plug. There should be enough room to have the rope laying off to one side of the mast plug, not disturbing it. You need about 50 mm of 2mm rope length from the top of the sail to the figure ???8?? knot you tie off the 2mm rope with.

Also purchase a cheap screwdriver which is about 30cm long and a cheap hammer.

Before de-rigging, pound the screwdriver through the loop at the top of the sail (best done with the side of the hammer, just in case you miss the screwdriver). When the screwdriver is fully into the ground, walk around the sail, undoing the outhaul and the boom. Remove the boom from the sail.

Walk to the mast end of the sail and SLOWLY let off your outhaul. When the outhaul is fully off, twist the mast back and forth, at the same time pulling the mast out of the luff sleeve.

The mast should come straight out of the sleeve. At the same time none of the monofilm panels should be crunched up, preventing your creasing problem when de-rigging.

The length of the screwdriver usually will hold the sail, even in sand.

I don???t feel qualified to offer too much info when you are putting the mast into the sail sleeve. I don???t use Tushy sails and do not know anyone here who does (there are no Tushy dealers here in Melbourne).

Suffice to say that if you can hear the sail mono crunching up as you sleeve the mast, then your rigging technique may be suspect. , who was very helpful in my opinion, used to say something like ???if you can here it crackling, you aren???t rigging it right??. My apologies if this offends you.

I hope the above is helpful to you,

Regards,

Windman




19th January 2007 09:01 AM
steveC
RE: Light but Durable lightwind Cam sail - does it exist?

For high quality sails check out Hansen Sails at their website and forum, and for pricing on their whole sail line, to include Hansen Masts, check out the Hansen Sails Store.

http://www.hansensails.com/

http://www.calcupevents.com/Stores/Hansen/Hansen_Store.htm

Bill Hansen is one of the most innovative and experienced sail designers in the business. I should point out that he was the original founder and sail designer for Windwing Sails, yet he has more recently separated from Windwing and started a new company. If have been sailing Bill's sails for over 20 years now, and I can assure you that the quality, design and durability of his sails has always been top flight in all respects. Sails are available on a preorder basis, and I should emphasize that some special custom material choices and sizes are also available on request. I'm not affiliated with Hansen Sails in any way, just a satisfied customer.
19th January 2007 08:30 AM
Roger
RE: Light but Durable lightwind Cam sail - does it exist?

Hi Paulk,
Hmmmm.... it would be good to somehow watch how you rig (and derig) you sails.
Since I get alot of "help" rigging and derigging the Sailworks Retros I use for demos, over the years many of them have developed some "creases", but I've never had any of the creases turn into a hole.
Do you rig on sand, grass, flat cement or asphalt?
Do you roll your sails nice and tight, from the top, down the leech of the sail?
I mostly derig my sails "in the water" to eliminate sand or pavement damage and the sails last very well and bring a good price as demo sails at the end of the year when I trade them out for the next years sails.
How do you store your sails?
Mine all fit into a loft built into the top of my 15' box truck so they lay flat on sheets of 3/8" plywood over a 2x4 framework.
I sometimes have almost 2 full layers of sails and I don't get many creases.
Can you explain your rigging/derigging steps?
Hope this helps,
19th January 2007 07:22 AM
Guest
RE: retro

Retro with x-ply is better than a perfect example. X-ply has a much better "hand".
19th January 2007 03:25 AM
paulk
RE: Light but Durable lightwind Cam sail - does it exist?

>>The tape is there to hold the cut panel to it's original shape (as >>much as possible) and to prevent the tear from propagating further >>across the panel.

That's exactly the problem - those creases become holes in 1-2 sessions, not years! I had the same problem both with Retro 04' (not x-ply) and now with Tush. I try to rig it without creating to many creases. And I indeed have only 3-5 on my Tush., but they already developed into holes. I keep sails at room temps.
paul
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