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21st June 2012 08:34 PM
Sailboarder You are right, I meant distance between mast foot and fin.

You are also right that I am simplifying. However, my take is that I will choose sail size first according to the wind. Theoretically, fin selection would be second, depending on the water state and ride objective. The smoother the water, the faster I'll go, and the smaller fin I will use. If I had a big quiver, board selection would be last step. Enough mast-foot to fin length to cover well my sail, enough width to make sure I am not overpowered by the fin, but not too much width to loose traction all the time due to chop.

Volume itself is important only if uphauling is required. Weight + 30l in my case for easy success. Volume is also practical to describe the boards since it cover both width and length in a single number, but it is not accurate at all. My Kona One behaves roughly like a 135l board but is 220l. The critical measurements are the same however.
21st June 2012 04:14 PM
Ken unreg, (I don't know which one)

If Roger made a mistake, it was not asking for more detailed information regarding the original posters question. Uphauling ability is based upon experience and the original poster could have offered more about his/her experience, but didn't, so Roger just made a calculated guess.

Since I don't know how many different "unregistered" posters are on this tread, this discussion is going around in circles unless the original poster can identify him/her self and expand on their experience so a better response can be provided.

One issue I have with Sailboarder's comments on board/sail size is that some of the shortest boards on the market carry the largest sails = Formula boards. Board width (in the tail) is also an important factor with determining sail size (fins too).
21st June 2012 02:05 PM
Sailboarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Why are board volumes decided by sail range and not body weight? .
I had the same question last year. The reason is linked to both sail and board geometry. A large sail will require more distance between the mast foot and the fin, in order to have the CE of the sail aligned with the CLR of the board. (CE=Centre of effort, CLR=Centre or lateral resistance). So it is not exactly the volume that is important, but the lenght of the board.

If you go to extremes, a small 3.5 sail will always have it CE in front of the CLR of an ultrasonic board. Because of this, the board will always head downind.

Now if you take a specific 100l board with it's optimal 6.0 sail, it can be used with two people of vastly different weight. I guess my wife at 60 kg could plane with this in 14 knots. Myself, at 95 kg, will need more than 20 kts. Somewhat independantly, the water state will also be important. My wife will want to use that board in flatish water, but I will like it in chop.
21st June 2012 09:38 AM
Unregistered Just because one person finds a skill easy does not make it so for everybody..

The benefits gained from going to 100 litres (for 68 kg) would be outweighed by extra risks. There are lots of 115 litre boards that would fit bill perfectly.
21st June 2012 09:12 AM
nakaniko unreg. I don't see the problem. I agree with Roger, a 68 kg guy can easily uphaul over a 100 lt board, ad with a 5,3 that is the best board for a nomal-intermediate sailor. I'm 90 kg and I easily uphaul over a 112 old board (Mistral Score), even using a slightly out of range Superfreak 8,0.
Obviously if someone wants to have more volume to have more safety for the conditions, and/or for his still low learning level, none forbid to use a bigger board, well knowing that it will be less than perfect. In the first years I rode a Mistral Echo 138 lt even in waves in the sea with NW strong wind in Tunscany, yes it was a rodeo, but I was able to uphaul even in the middle of the sea (yes I also was younger...).
Volume is reated to sails, are the sails that change range of wind and use with different weights.
20th June 2012 06:12 PM
Unregistered Ken

I quote

"It would seem that for your 150 Lbs./68 kg. body weight you could easily uphaul a
100 liter board, " From a Starboard expert...for someone asjking advice re uphauling and a 130 litre board

68 kg is not a heavy sailor; but the blokes board will weigh minimum of 8 kg. (wet straps etc) His mast a couple; (probably more) his sail 4 or 5 and his boom a couple. His wetsuit/harness will add another couple.(at least) Total approx 17kg..
68+ 17 = 85kg...
Doesnt need a science expert or a sailing one to know that any sailor is not going to be able to uphaul with that level of flotation easily.. Its a developed skil and a difficult one at that. Throw in rough water and a relative new sailor and its a recipe for rescue !!! And why ??? Like I said earlier its fashion.. Push sailors onto smallest possible board...often too early and in many cases inappropriate !!!

Watch so many "experts" all over world sailiung(actually wallowing) on boards that are simply too small. Would have thought that someone with your knowledge (and Roger`s) woukld be a little more careful with your advice; especially on issues that could develop into safety risks..
There are loads of great boards out there capable of been uphauled with 85kg load and handle 5.3 in rough water... If there arent any in starboard range thats a different issue...
20th June 2012 04:31 PM
Ken Unregistered,

There are so many variables (body weight, board volume, board width, wind speed, skill level, water conditions, type of sailing, salt/fresh water) that there just isn't a simple way to provide what you want.

That's why there is a forum to help individuals determine what will work best for you given your circumstances and skills. That's Roger's goal.

For each board, given it's volume, width , length and design purpose, certain size sails work best, regardless of body weight.

For me at 165 lbs, it's somewhat easy for me to uphaul a 105 liter board (it doesn't sink) and deal with little or no wind if I get stuck. We each find our comfort zone for uphauling based on our skill, sailing site and typical conditions, and it will vary quite a bit for many sailors of the same weight on the same board.

Some 150 lb sailors had difficulty uphauling on a 200 liter board when they began windsurfing and with highly developed skills, can now uphaul an 75 liter board.

Those of us that think before we act and ask questions or research windsurfing, are never victims.

I find that I have the most fun on the smallest board that will maintain good speed/planing given the wind conditions. For me, that's over 20 knots of wind. While I still have fun in lighter winds on bigger boards/sails, the smaller board it just more fun. I think this is true for most windsurfers that get frequent or occasional windy days, but we sometimes go too far and select something that is too small and struggle a bit. It's just a little too much optimism at times, expecting the wind to do more than it can. Bummer, then we have to re-rig something larger.
20th June 2012 01:12 PM
Unregistered Mr Average weighs around 75kg.. In an attempt to sell as many of any individual board as possible ALL boards are designed with this in mind. The further you stray from being Mr Average (in weight) the harder it is to find a board that works for you in conditions you sail.

Unfortunately the situation is endemic. Most will tell heavyweights they need "more skill" (to uphaul/gybe/wave ride etc etc) but in reality they simply need more volume.. Reserve volume is even geared towards maintaining this BS... Its a ridiculous concept.. Imagine an oil tanker with 10 litres reserve volume...It would be sinking... A duck on the other hand floats happily with lots less than 10 litres reserve volume...Afraid all our sport is based on psuedo science... The manufacturers cant even (or wont)quote real volumes; in this way they are allowed to manipulate all us naive sailors into buying this years trend/revolution/wide board/tri fin/quad/ etc etc .. All we really need is a board that floats us and planes when its windy; gybes when we need and jumps when we want...But we are all victims of sponsored sailors/flashy magazines/sails patter and end up with 4 boards (3 of which are basically too small) ; 8 sails and 4 masts...

Oh and its fashion to sail a board thats too small... Go to any venue and everyone does it..Its not cool to sail a board thats big enough for you dude...
20th June 2012 12:26 PM
Unreg Reg Amazing to me that manufacturers still quote this nonesense about sail range with no mention of weight !!
(Mind you when they cant measure the volume of boards properly it shouldn`t be surprising)

Any board asked to carry a load of 100kg will never have same sail range when carrying 60kg.. It simply cant...

A heavier sailor will not be able to carry as big sail on a given board but will be able to use the board with smaller rigs... A 100k sailor can knock roughly (roughly) 1 metre off top and bottom limits of sail range.
5th June 2012 03:11 AM
Roger Unreg.
You can certainly sail a Carve 131 with your sails at your weight.
It would seem that for your 150 Lbs./68 kg. body weight you could easily uphaul a
100 liter board, and a 100 liter board would seem much more suitable with a 5.3 m2 rig
in 20+ knots of wind as the surface conditions in 20+ knots would be far too rough for
your body weight on a Carve 131.
With your 7.5 rig, in 12-15 knots, the Carve 131 would be pretty good, but still a bit more
volume than you need to uphaul.
Perhaps you need to examine your uphauling skills a bit and see it you can find ways to
uphaul sucessfully in more sloppy conditions.
The Carve 101 would seem to have plenty of volume for you to slog back to shore and get through
the dead zones in almost no wind.
You would not be planing on either board, so the additional volume will not help much.
Additional width will however get you planing a bit earlier and certainly help with stability
while uphauling.
Roger
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