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5th May 2008 05:10 PM
Apollo and R19 Drake

Old topic, perhaps no reason to post, but since I had the chance to ride Apollo(2007)
for about half an hour, and I thought to post some info in case it's of any help.

I am 98kg (1.93m tall), systematically training on formula boards during about the last 2 years. Wind was around 12knots having few lulls and gusts. Water a bit choppy but
nothing dramatic. Until now I was used to ride F2 FXII(I think 2003 model...).
I tried Apollo with a R19 Drake fin (taken from an old F160) and 11.0 sail (Aerotech VMG).

From the first ride it was obvious that the board planes really much quicker (than e.g.
from F2 FXII) without the need to pump hard.
The upwind pointing angle was really much better. Using the same
sail and fin on FXII, I was unable to reach such an upwind angle. However the board felt
slow and 'huge' - I guess this is the price to pay when you get a better angle(?).
But, this might be due to the R19 Drake fine, which is thick and cheap.

I think this board is a good choice for those who are heavy weight(>90kg) and really
strugle when racing in marginal wind conditions (10knots or less). But, in this case,
a second formula board is essential, in case the wind picks up more than 15knots....
It would be nice to have an Apollo board which has maybe better performance in
mid-wind range (I don't state 'high-wind' cause, I don't think it's easy to have a super
early planner board in 6-7knots and at the same time to be able to ride it in 20+knots).

17th March 2007 12:35 AM
RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Hi Roger,

I think that experimentation with different mast components is an interesting path. I've done some mixing out of necessity, and I've found the results can be quite acceptable if stiffness differences aren't that great. Yet, I think a lot depends on the focus of the mixing effort. I feel that concentration on different tops, as opposed to bottoms, will most likely lead to a more workable outcome overall.

Once you've had the opportunity to test and validate your ideas, I'd really like to hear more about what you learned.

16th March 2007 07:15 AM
RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Hi Matthew,
As soon as I get some new masts and mast pieces tomorrow, I hope to get on the water and try these new ideas out.
As you may (or may not) know, I don't tell people about new ideas like this until I actually try them out.
As soon as I determine how much more I can get from some of my new '07 Sailworks rigs, I'll let you know.
I already have started using this same concept on the Hucker sails, but I need to check it out with a new 9.5 Retro and perhaps the '06 Retro 10.0 m2 mentioned above.
I'm also going to test this idea in some of my larger NX slm race sails.
I guess this is one of those "never say never" situations.
For years I've been "preaching" for sailors to get the suggested "best" mast to get the most from their sails, but it looks like there may be some options here.
Having said this, it occurs to me that one needs to be a bit careful about mixing mast parts and having a really good idea of what you want to achieve by using other than the recommended best mast.
The basic concept here is to give the sail more panel and perimeter tension by selecting mast pieces (tops and bottoms) with different stiffness and bend characteristics to move more and less tension into areas where you want more draft and shape.
Hope this helps,
16th March 2007 06:05 AM
RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Roger wrote:

Bruce P. gave me some suggestions to get more low end out of my sails yesterday , so I have a whole new spectrum of ideas to check out here.
I'd love to hear those suggestions Roger.

13th March 2007 08:23 PM
RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Hi Bensen,
Sunday with the 10.0 Retro (which everyone who tried the board in 8-12 knots got going prettye easily was a True Ames Santa Barabara Weed 53 cm (20.8 ").
On Monday, I used a True Ames Santa Barbara Weed 58 cm with the 9.1 NX slm.
I have alot more finsx to try this week.
So far, the OEM 75 cm wide chord Drake seems to work to get planing, but I've found that shorter fins are significantly faster, so I'm working toward finding a fin/rig combination that's both fast and plaes super early.
Bruce P. gave me some suggestions to get more low end out of my sails yesterday , so I have a whole new spectrum of ideas to check out here.
I'm yhinking that for my weight, a 70-72 is ultimately going to be the best race type fin size for me, and as I say, I have about 5 or 6 different weed fin designs to test as well.
So far, in "easy to get planing conditions (around 7 knots) my first choice of fins would be a Deboichet Concept 64 and the True Ames
SB Weed 53 cm.
Hope this helps,
13th March 2007 07:35 PM
RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

I'm starting to think the wind is always blowing 10 knots plus!

Has anyone tried the apollo in 5-6 knots (windspeed)??

I would love to hear how it goes or doesn't go in this windspeed.
13th March 2007 02:55 PM
RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Hi Hugh
I was using my best racing fin F1 S- 70cm +8 which I use in my F161 with 11 and 11,8 in both, Apollo and F161, for clear comparison. Its a super super soft, slim but powerfull fat profile fin. This fin provides the F161 with super lift upwind and allows very free unproblematic and fast deep downwind. Because of the +7,5cm wider tail of the Apollo I have to ride this fin more sensible. I dont believe to much in the 75cm in our gusty conditions. In stronger Gusts its to slow because to large. Maybe a good choice in constant 7-11kn, not in 7-15kn.
I will use my Apollo in racing with 11 and 11,8 specially in gusty conditions with 7kn areas. Will report after first competitions of Formula Super Cup in May.
peter B)
13th March 2007 01:26 PM
RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Hi Roger

When you used your Sailworks yesterday, what fin did you use?

Any hints to get the Apollo planing i very low wind conditions?

So far, I have been using my Apollo with a Drake 70 cm fin and a NP Rss 9,2, but if I can use the 75 cm fin in combo with a 9,2 sail, it´s getting interesting.

Pls tell us your secret.
13th March 2007 10:28 AM
RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?

Hi George,
Well, I finally have my Apollo back from the WS Mag board tests.
They seemed to like the Apollo, alot!
Since then I've had the board out several times myself, and did a weekend demo with it.
To say the least, IT ROCKS!
One sailor was out in a measured 10 knots of wind yesterday and his GPS said he was doing over 20 knots.
I was out on it today, in < 10 knots (more like 7-9) with a 9.1 Sailworks NX fw and manged to pull away from a lighter sailor on a 10m2 + Ezzy and a Starboard F-147.
On a beam reach the boards were about even.
Upwind and off the wind Apollo (over a Formula board) the Apollo is a bit faster but the nice thing is that it&#39;s so darn easy to sail.
I did NOT say it&#39;s easy at first to get it planing, that takes a bit of figuring out, but once you get the magic combination, the Apollo takes off well before any other recreational board I&#39;ve ever sailed, and in < 12 knots, I think it&#39;s probably the fastest recreational board ever.
George, if you are racing, then your Lab or the F-161 are probably the best tools.
For being the first to plane on Mission Bay, try the Apollo and I think you will be absolutely astonished.
Put a big drafty free race sail on it (not your Pryde double luff) and you will almost for sure be the first to plane. Might be great with the big double luff as well, but I don&#39;t think FW sails are the best tools for
use at the absolute min. planing threshold.
Hope this helps,
13th March 2007 01:49 AM
Hugh Jarmes
RE: Anybody try the Apollo Yet?


Thanks - it is great to get your view

But what fin were you using on the Apollo?

And what was the fin on the 161?

I think this is important information when making a comparison.

I found that the 75cm fin has a great deal to do with the early planing ability of the Apollo. Unfortunately, a 75cm fin is not legal for racing.
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