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Han 23rd January 2007 10:11 PM

Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
Hi friends,

myself and other friends have a discussion about alternatives to Formula for light wind windsurfing for light weight sailors. (<75kg, <165lbs)
There are opinions, which say that using slalom/freerace wide boards, 75/80 cm, and smaller sails than formula, 8.0/8.5, will give the same early planning threshold as formula gear gives. (7/8 knots)
What do you think about?

Thanks!

-Lampi- 24th January 2007 12:42 AM

RE: Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
I agree with those oppinions, an iS133 and 8.0 cam sail is about as good as a formula for really light people.

But why not buy a kite for light winds? It&#39;s a lot less tyring than big sails. Or go play volleyball or something...:D

All the best

o2bnme 24th January 2007 01:50 AM

RE: Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
I just posted to a similar topic, but let me respond to Lampi. For the most part, I couldn&#39;t agree more. After taking my 8.0 Retro out on an F-Type 148 with a 66cm fin, I found I could plane VERY early. I do have a 9.8 V8 and 70cm fin I use when the wind is at its lightest.

I will be doing more testing between these two setups. I was surprised how well the 8.0 and the FType did and I want to see how much I gain by using a 9.8. If I can get out there with less sail, when I&#39;m out of shape, my back and forearms would be happier.

I am going to buy a tandem windsurfer for the lightest of winds. My wife and I will be able to sail together and enjoy the day. It will sort of be like going canoing. I also have resurrected an old Windsurfer Classic. I can put the 8.0 Retro on that and sail. I have found that it is a blast to go out on!

On the subject of kiting, I want to resist picking up another sport. It keeps the funds for windsurfing more available. ;)

Here is the text from my other post on this subject...

I&#39;m 140-145 pounds.

My current lightwind gear is an F-Type 148 and a 9.8 V8. My next smaller sail is a 8.0 Retro. When sailing with heavier sailors (180-200 pounds), I find they go to a 10.6 V8 and a formula board when I&#39;m on my 9.8 V8 and FT148.

The other week, I was using my 8.0 Retro and an iSonic 105 (stock 40cm fin) when the winds were strong enough for it. A friend was on his formula board with a 10.6. He definitely planed earlier than me, but it wasn&#39;t by much. I was surprised how close I was to keeping up with him. I should have been on my 9.8 with my F-Type 148, but I wanted to test the low-wind tolerances of my Retro and iSonic combination.

I put a 66cm fin on my F-Type after he packed up and found the 8.0 Retro to be amazing in light winds (I rigged it to the numbers). I use a 70cm fin when I rig the 9.8 V8, by the way.

Here&#39;s a picture of me that afternoon with the 8.0 Retro and an F-Type 148. You can see from the water that there wasn&#39;t much wind.


Ola_H 24th January 2007 03:36 AM

RE: Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
An option: Stand up Paddleboard. With mast cassette so you can enjoy light wind windsurfing too.

-Lampi- 24th January 2007 11:38 PM

RE: Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
o2bnme!

The kite i had in mind wouldn&#39;t cost any more than a new light wind rig+board. I didn&#39;t say he should buy a whole quiver of kites or something, just one kite and board about 16 - 18 m2 as an alternative to big rigs.

The reason i suggested it is that my dad bought a formula board and 10m2 rig and i tried it a few times and i didn&#39;t like it at all. It was heavy to uphaul, almost impossible to &#39;&#39;pump&#39;&#39; and it felt like a torture when i got planing. The 10m2 sail was simply too big for me. When the winds got strong enough to get planing without pumping, a friend who weighs about as much as me went in with a 140l/7.6 and was planing with no problems. In the afternoon, when the wind was strong enough for 5.5, i was too tired to go sailing....

We sold the formula the same season.

Kind regards


Randy 24th January 2007 11:41 PM

RE: Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
I&#39;m about 60kg and have found my Hypersonic (H105) planes quite early when rigged with a big (8.5+) sail. I&#39;ve sailed it with sails as big a 9.6 I&#39;ve also sailed a number of formula boards. While I can&#39;t quantify the difference in early planning between the H105 and larger boards I don&#39;t think its much. A bigger fin (I&#39;ve used as large as 58 cm) does seem to help for early planning. The stock 44 cm fin wouldn&#39;t do as well.

steveC 25th January 2007 12:18 AM

RE: Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
It&#39;s awfully tough to plane up in 7-8 knots, but if one was considering 10 knots, the chances improve greatly. In these conditions I can readily plane on my old course slalom (284cm x 61cm), a 50cm fin and an 8.3 sail. Of course, the angle of attack is no where near what a formula board can achieve, but for general sailing about with an emphasis on reaching, one can have a fun time zipping about. I can honestly say that the kites really don&#39;t have me over the barrel in these conditions, and when the wind dies off, I can simply slog in. In most cases, the kite guys are swimming if they miss the signs.


James 25th January 2007 12:54 AM

RE: Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
Hi Han,

I think that a 75-80 cm wide board and an 8.5 would be a good alternative to formula for a light guy. With pumping you could plane in about the same wind strength as a heavier guy on formula gear (a little over 10 knots). Of course I think an even wider board would give you and extra boost, like in the nice picture posted by o2bnme .

I weigh 155 lbs and based on my experience, my best estimation of minimum planing thresholds for me is:

10 knots or less: Can only plane with 10-12 m sails on Formula board
12 knots: 144 liter F2 Xantos with 8.5, or hypersonic with 9.4
13 knots: 125 liter Bic Techno with 7.5
14 knots: 99 liter Carve with 6.9
16 knots: 99 liter Carve with 5.8
18 knots: 99 liter Carve with 5.2, or 77 liter waveboard with 5.8
20 knots: 77 liter waveboard with 5.2 (my favorite combo)
~25 knots: 77 liter waveboard with 4.2
~30 knots: 77 liter waveboard with 3.4

Jean-Marc 30th January 2007 04:01 AM

RE: Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
Han,

I weight 65 kg (about 145 lbs) and I&#39;ve done a lot of testing to find out the planing threshold (start and sustain it) of various sail/fin/board combo as follows:

6/7 knots : 10.6 sail, 70 cm race fin, formula
7 knots : 10.6 sail, 54 cm race fin, HS105
8 knots : 10.6 sail, 48 or 44 cm race fin, HS105
9 knots : 10.6 sail, 40 cm race fin, HS105
10 knots : 8.2 sail, 40 cm race fin, HS105
11 knots : 8.2 sail, 40 cm race fin, Carve 111
12 knots : 8.2 sail, 32 cm slalom fin, HS105
12 knots : 6.9 sail, 32 cm freeride fin/Carve 111 or 30 cm freeride fin/Kombat 86

From that above, you can see that the planing threshold is dependent on a number of factors such as sail size, fin size, max width & OFO width of the hull, depth of concaves, weight of the board, energy/determination/skills and weight of the rider. Some combination did work much better than other, obviously...

Cheers !

JM

o2bnme 30th January 2007 09:26 AM

RE: Early planning gear light weight sailors
 
I would agree with those numbers as well. And I agree with Lampi, the big rigs are quite heavy. When I&#39;m not in shape, my back gets very sore after a couple of hours... so I try to stay in shape. :-)

As for kiting, I was not trying to convince someone to stay away from kiting. I was just sharing the reason why I didn&#39;t want to do kiting. If I were to spend money on a kite and board, that would be money NOT spent on windsurfing. ;-) Kiting is a valid option for the discussion. I apologize.


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