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Guest 22nd February 2007 09:27 AM

New Quiver of Sails - Help!
Hello All, I am looking to replace my old, worn sails with a new quiver, which I will share with my wife. As I normally sail on moderate winds on flat water, I was thinking of sails between the 5.7 and 8.2 range. (I actually already got a deal on a 2006 NP Saber so that will be my largest sail). Questions: NP sails seem to be priced at a premium to nearly all other sails.. Is the premium justified compared to Severne, Sailworks, Naish, or others? Should I make sure I stay with one manufacturer? I was thinking of spacing of 5.7, 6.3 - 6.4, 7.2- 7.3, and then my 8.2 Saber. Any suggestions? My intention was to go with no-cam sails all the way around, though my old saild are mosly cam sails. Would you suggest I stay with CAM sails. For further background, I sail on a Naish Icon 160 and my wife is on a JP 145 and we are in the 195 lbs and 130 lbs respectively. Our current quiver consists of a 6.2 Gaastra Grind, a 7.0 NP V8, and a NP 8.8 Spirit. I would appriciate any thoughts you might be able to share.


geo 22nd February 2007 03:08 PM

RE: New Quiver of Sails - Help!
Hi guest!

Here are my thoughts:

1) In this era of CAD programs, it is very very difficult for an experienced sailmaker to design a bad windsurfing sail. Therefore a premium price should be justified only by tangible differences such as superior materials (almost everybody use the same kind of materials depending on intended sail use), more sophistication (i. e. number of battens or cams or carbon tube battens...), better manufacturing; and, most of all, better useable performance vs. the competition.
That said, I think that NP premium price is totally unjustified, and even more.
2) One important issue is mast compatibility. Given you are choosing a sail quiver, be sure you use the proper masts and do the math including mast purchase.
3) The size spacing you are thinking at seems more or less OK to me. Things will be eased if you choose rangy sails.
4) Modern cammed sails are a breeze to use compared to older ones. If you mainly sail in moderate winds and flat water, you should definitely consider that option. By the way, such sails are the ones with the best wind range by far.

Here is my very personal pick for an uncomplicated, rangy, durable quiver: Ezzy Sails Wave LE 5.8, Infinity or Freeride 6.5 and 7.5 (but then the Saber would see little use).
It is difficult to pick sizes according to your desires without jumping from a manufacturer or sail line to another, which I would avoid in order to have the same kind of behaviour throughout the whole range.

Per 22nd February 2007 04:02 PM

RE: New Quiver of Sails - Help!
Hi Peter
The spacing of sails may vary a lot depending of the intended use and type of sail.
Some wave sailors may go 4.7, 5.0, 5.3 etc. while I know formula sailors who will sail their 10.7 until they can go comfortable on a 6.5 with slalom gear.
For everyday freeride use my best experience is to move upwards in 20% intervals from the smallest sail. This will be like 5.0, 6.0, 7.2 etc.
Again it depends on the intented use and the board. You may use two different boards for the sail range.
Modern freeride sails have a huge range though.
Regarding the price I have no experience of a higher price meaning better quality at all unless you are a top competition sailor... Materials are almost the same and they're all made in labour cheap places in China...
Some brands use a lot of time on renewing design (expensive) ex. NP, while some are more conservative (cheaper) ex. Tushingham.
I've had both NP sails and Tushingham. Tushingham are about 15% cheaper, and to me, their durability is way superior to NP. Performance is excellent on both brands.
Just my personal experience though:p

steveC 23rd February 2007 01:22 AM

RE: New Quiver of Sails - Help!
Hi Peter,

While I think that geo and Per have offered some great advice, I thought that I could add a comment or two. Whatever sails you finally decide on, be sure to get the appropriate masts. geo so rightly identified this already, but a little added emphasis doesn't hurt. Also, you might want to give a little thought about the respective advantages between SDMs/RDMs, as it might have a bearing on the particular sails you might want to consider.

Regarding the cam/no cam options, I have to say that the no cam sails these days are really outstanding. I prefer them myself because they make life so much easier with respect to rigging and jibing, yet they still offer very good stability and range. Although they don't quite measure up to camber sails at the low and high extremes of their range, I think the performance gap is not as great as it used to be, especially with the 6-7 batten no cams. One important difference is price, so you might want to weigh in your budget to help you decide.

Lastly, I would advise sticking to a single brand of sails. Admittedly, this recommendation is an arguable one, because crossing the lines between slalom and wave sail for instance easily allows one the opportunity to focus on different brands that might offer some distinct advantages over others. I think geo could make a good case for this, as it's reflective of his approach. Nonetheless, I think the single brand of sails offers consistencies of design and approach, particularly as it might apply to tuning and mast compatibility. Also, if one wants to update their sail quiver more regularly, I believe that it would probably be more saleable to have sails of a single brand.

Guest 25th February 2007 06:50 PM

RE: New Quiver of Sails - Help!
From my experience even though monofilm sails are made from the same materials it doesn't mean they're assembled to the same standards. I bought 3 new sails of the same brand in 2004 and after barely 2 seasons use they all needed repairs to the stiching in the lower luff. Needless to say I will never buy that brand again.

Guest 25th February 2007 10:32 PM

RE: New Quiver of Sails - Help!
My 2c...

For flat water free ride, I would NOT get a cammed sail except maybe your biggest as a 2 cam.

I think you CAN mix brands, but I would only do it at the extreme end of quiver (i.e., go with the Saber as you biggest and only NP sail, using others with non-aggressive spread between the NP and the rest of the quiver).

I would NOT go with the suggested 20% sail size difference, because you are buying a quiver for 2 people of very different sizes (and likely preferences in all kinds of things related to windsurfing). Thus, I think you will be better off with about a 12% spread, so that you and your wife can BOTH have a choice of sails on any given day. What you don't want is to be in a situation where you both want the same sail, she overpowered, you underpowered, both planing. I don't have a wife, but if I did, I would make SURE that she was getting as much or more planing time than me. That's on the principle of making sure my partner is having a good time, because then I can have a good time. I sail when I'm planing, when I'm not planing, a bad day windsurfing is a great day, so if you're like me, make sure your wife has everything she needs. One extra sail, maybe even two sails, is worth the investment.

Per 27th February 2007 02:23 AM

RE: New Quiver of Sails - Help!
We'd all love a 12% spread or maybe even less. Anyway there's a money factor for most people too. A narrow spread will call for a double number of masts and maybe even more booms too.

I have a wife. She doesn't windsurf (yet) but if she did I wouldn't dare to claim that if I was comfortably powered on a 7.2 she would be too heavy for a 6.0:D
Regarding cammed sails I would only choose them in +8 m2 sizes unless i were pro slalom sailing...

Guest 28th February 2007 12:19 AM

RE: New Quiver of Sails - Help!
Hi Peter,

I am 195pds myself and windsurf mostly on flat water. Skill: 4 (of 6). My thougts:

1. Your suggested quiver looks good to me considering that you are using it with two people (of largely different weight).
2. Yes, you can mix brands. I am using: Pryde (12.5), North(8.2), Gaastra (6.5), Pryde (5.3), Gun (4.2), all with masts from Gun (580), Technofibre (490), North (460) and Pryde (430) and booms from Pryde and North. Works fine.
3. I Wouldnt by a cam-sail below 8.5 for freeriding.
4. No, the prices for Pryde are not justified by anything. To my experience they are not any better or worse than the other brands that I use.


geo 28th February 2007 01:18 AM

RE: New Quiver of Sails - Help!
Just to highlight a few points that see me not agree with Carlo...
Of course one can mix brands and models; but choosing a quiver from the same brand will probably avoid a few problems with mast bends, and different sizes from the same model or similar ones will let one have similar sail charachter and behaviour throughout the whole range. This could be important for one, or not.
As for cams: I'd never do without cams for flat water. No reason to do without cams and consequent added stability, better range, more control at speed, more power, better top end.

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