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-   -   Carve 121 set up (http://www.star-board-windsurfing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1462)

michele 22nd March 2007 08:08 PM

Carve 121 set up
 
Dear Roger,
in date 9/24/2003 I wrote you a post about the set up of Carve 121.
Now i've two questions because the problems remain:

1) You sad me: "back is fast....move the mast foot all the way back until it's about to pop out the reare of the narrow part of the slot T-nut access. Well, when he said "all the way back until it's about to pop out" intend the screw of the mast base or the reare part of the mast twist plate ?

2) You wrote me also: "look to see where the water is coming out frome under your board when you are fully planing. If its coming out ahead of the front footstraps ...then you need to get both your wheigt and mast foot pressure back...." Well I've try with the mast base all the wai back but the water go out ahead or under the front foot strap and the board is non free to run (realy) on the fin. (not very loose feel) Why ? Do you think that the problem is a too much hight boom and too much shorter arnes line ? (24)

Thank,
Michele

Roger 23rd March 2007 04:33 AM

RE: Carve 121 set up
 
Hello Michele,
Question 1) You can move the mast base all the way back until the "T"-nut is at the back of the slot, but not hanging over into the wider access slot.
This will put the rear edge of the twist plate all the way back until it's near or slightly cover the serial number (on some boards, as the serial numbers have moved around a bit over the years).
What year Carve 121 do you have? I did a little research, and since your first post was in 2003 I'll take a chance that you have a 2003 Carve 121.
If you only move the mast foot back until the edge of the twist plate is at the back of the wider access slot, you can still go back around one more inch.
You can move the mast foot back until you feel a little tab (on some boards) at the back of the mast slot. You do not want the T-nut hanging over into the unsupporting access slot, but as long as there's full contact between the underside of the "T"'s on the nut and the mast slot, you are OK.
Question 2)
Ummmm... I'd have to see you in action, fully lit up on an "appropriate for the conditions" rig/board/fin to tell if the reason your board is not "unwetting fully is due to the tuning of the board rig and fin, or due to how you are trying to sail it (stance, harness line position and length, and perhaps footstrap position.
How much do you weigh...?
What size rig (s) are you using...?
What is the approximate windspeed...?
When you are really powered up, you normally would feel the board trying to "tailwalk" a little with the mast foot all the way back and (again "normally") you would want to move the mast foot forward a bit to "settle" your board.
What fin are you using...?
Where do you have the footstraps positioned...?
Are you tall, with long legs, or shorter...?
Sorry I don't have a more specific answer, but your situation is so "dynamic" there could be any number of things "unbalanced" and then again maybe nothing is out of tune and you need to place your weight differently, change you stance a little or something similar.
Water coming out "under the front footstraps" is very close to optimum, so you can't be having too big a problem with your issues here.
Hope this helps,

michele 23rd March 2007 04:23 PM

RE: Carve 121 set up
 
Thank you Roger,
you are fantastic every time !

I can unsderstand your problems for the second question.

I've change the carve 2003 and now I've e carve 2005.
My weight is 80 Kg and I'm 175 cm hight.
The foot strap are all the way back and out as you sad. The wind range is between 11 - 25 Knots (Porto pollo in Sardinia) and the sails are Gun sails Groove 6.2 and 6.8 and the fin is the drake fin.
I use a seat harnes, the boom is between chin and eyes level and harnes line are 24 inch.
I've found that the best position for the mast track is all the way back as you intend, but never happend "tailwalk" or loose of control.
My problem is the when I'm planing my weight and my body are all on front foot and the rear foot dont wark (I can not made force ) and often is out of strep .
Thank a lot,

Michele.

Roger 23rd March 2007 07:15 PM

RE: Carve 121 set up
 
Hi Michele,
OK, now we are getting somewhere.
Your boom height sounds quite high to me.
Formula racers run booms that high, but for a narrower
board like the Carve 122 running the boom so high would seem
give exactly what you are experiencing, i.e. too much front foot
pressure and almost no back foot pressure.
I tried to look at a Gun Sails Groove, but since it's an older design I could only see that it's free ride wave type sail.
I'm a bit surprised that you have 2 sails spaced so closely together in size (0.6 m2).
I would think that for 11-16 knots you would want a larger rig (perhaps 7.5 m2) and for 20 knots you'd feel more comfortable on a 5.5 m2 rig on the '05 Carve 121.
Try lowering your boom, and try to sail your board flat (rail to rail) or slightly lee rail down by pulling up slightly with your front foot as you push across the top of the water (yes, try to push the tail away from you) with your back foot. This may serve to get the weight off your front foot.
Do you ever "spin out"? Probably not, as that woudl be a symptom of "pushing too hard" with your back leg, but it would be good for you to experience a few times as then you would know you are getting lots of pressure across the top of the board rather than trying to push down.
It sounds a bit like your high boom position may be holding your body in a stance that's a bit too erect, and your weight is going down onto the board, rather than being carried by the rig.
Try lowering your boom and trying to "lay out" over the water on the upwind side of your board a bit more. This should allow you to put your weight completely on the harness lines, and free up your feet and the back of the board.
Hope this helps,

michele 23rd March 2007 10:58 PM

RE: Carve 121 set up
 
Dear Roger,
I don't know you but I can tell yuo that you are a great friend and,
more of all ......a great professionist....an example for all.
You have describe exactli the problem "try to sail your board flat (rail to rail) or slightly lee rail down by pulling up slightly with your front foot as you push across the top of the water (yes, try to push the tail away from you) with your back foot .......put your weight completely on the harness lines, and free up your feet and the back of the board." Theese are the things that I can't do!!

I hope do not disturb you anymore ....but I'll write you to tel: now is all OK.
Thank a lot,

Michele

Roger 24th March 2007 12:32 AM

RE: Carve 121 set up
 
Hi Michele,
Learning to trust your rig and sail to hold up your entire body weight is not something easy to learn.
In fact it's completely foreign to those who have not actually experienced it.
We are basically land creatures, used to having our weight on our feet and legs.
When we try to "suspend" our entire body weight on something powered by a completely invisible force (the wind) it's pretty hard to convince both the body and the mind that this will actually work.
Drop your boom down a bit, maybe shorten your lines a little and pick a nice powered up day and go out and work on simply sailing back and forth on beam reaches with the sail/rig supporting you as much as your mind will allow.
Soon your mind will "adjust" to the feeling of being suspended by an invisible force and it will become easy to almost completely unweight the back of your board.
When you get all your weight on the rig, your feet just become the "steering mechanism", pushing and pulling to make your board do all the things you want it to.
All the weight and power are now transmitted from the rig down to the mast foot, which drives the board along in a much different way than if you have your weight on yout feet and much less mast foot pressure.
Get the harness line balance just right, and you can even remove your hands from the boom for a little while and have the rig just stand there, holding you up, as your board rips effortlessly (hey, how can you be expending any effort if there's no weight on your legs and the only thing attaching you to the rig is your harness..?).
It's fairly easy to "retrain" your body, but sometimes it takes a while for the mind to accept what the body is doing.
Hope this helps,

michele 7th March 2008 05:44 PM

Dear Roger,
now I've chage the board and i've buy a 2005 carve 122.
What can yot tel me about the correct mast foot place.
Michele

Roger 7th March 2008 08:18 PM

Hi Michele,
The 2005 Carve 122 should be quite similar to your previous Carve 121.
Once again, you need to do some "testing" on your own to find out where
the "optimum" mast foot position is for you, your rigs, and your fins.
I have always suggested that if you do not know where the optimum mast
foot position is the easiest way to find out is to move the mast foot all the way
to the back of the slot (make sure you don't get it so far back that the T-nut
hangs over into the wider T-nut access).
Then sail your board.
If the board is tailwalking or you have other control issues, then obviously you have the mast foot too far back.
Move it forward about 2 cm at a time until you are just able to control the "issues".
This should make your board as "fast and free" as it's going to get.
If you change the fin, or the rig size, you will need to repeat the "testing" to find the oprimum for other configurations.
It will normally be around the same point on the mast slot (maybe 1-2 cm forward or back).
If you want a "starting point and don't wish to do your own testing, I's suggest starting with the twist plate washer right at the back of the wider access slot. That works pretty well for me at 75 Kg. with 6.5-8.5 m2 rigs and a 32 cm Lessacher Duo Weed fin or
the stock fin.
Hope this helps,


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