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robiceci 23rd May 2007 10:51 PM

Kids starting on a CARVE99 [2003] with kids rig

I'll try to teach windsurfing to my 11 y.o. daughter on a Carve99 with a 2.7 kids' rig.

Do you think it's ok? or should I put her on my Hybrid Formula board since it will be more stable?


Duracell 23rd May 2007 11:46 PM

RE: Kids starting on a CARVE99 [2003] with kids rig
no, its not okay.
kids can be challenged by difficult conditions, more likely though they will be put off. Make it easy for them to progress and they will.

crazychemical 24th May 2007 01:41 PM

RE: Kids starting on a CARVE99 [2003] with kids rig
Agreed, best to learn the baics on the hybrid; jibing, regular turning, beachstart. So she get the hang of the positioning on a board and then you proceed to the C99 for the more difficult stuff.

robiceci 24th May 2007 03:11 PM

Saturday we start!

Roger 24th May 2007 08:56 PM

RE: Kids starting on a CARVE99 [2003] with kids rig
Hi Roberto,
Your big Starboard Hybrid Formula will not be a good teaching board for a different set of reasons from the Carve 99.
And, while I'm sure you don't want to hear this, you are probably not a fully qualified kids windsurfing instructor.
If your 11 year old has expressed an interest in learning to windsurf (i.e. this is her idea) then the best way to get her started is at a kids camp put on by your local windsurfing association or club.
They should have the right types of boards/rigs and an instructional program that recognizes the special needs of kid sailors.
If learning to windsurf is not your daughter's idea, you will significantly decrease the probability for success if you teach her yourself, or teach her on gear that isn't going to work well for her.
And, you may only get one chance to have her learn and like the sport enough to stick with it.
Your 2.7 m2 kids rig will probably be as much a disaster on the Hybrid Formula as it will on the Carve 99.
The CE of a 2.7 m2 kids rig is practically at the mast, not well behind it like a 7.5 m2-12.5 m2 race sail which the Hybrid formula is designed for.
So, if you decide to do this anyway, make sure you put the mast foot absolutely as far back on the board as possible.
At first, it would be very good to find a big Start board and you go out with her, kneeling on the front of the board.
That's how I work with small kids and it's great. Safe, fun, and there's very little risk.
Take the board out yourself first (whether a Start, the Hybrid Formula, or something else) and you determine whether or not you have the board set up correctly so your daughter can sail across the wind and slightly upwind. If you can't get back to the same place you launched, how can she?
If you could find an older smaller "transition" board, with a center fin or centerboard that would be the cheapest way to get her a board that's going to work well.
Also, try the tether or tow board system I've been using.
Tie a small 3mm or 1/4" line with an 18" piece of 3/8 bungee cord spliced/tied in the middle between the mast foot on the tow board and the nose of the students board. The line needs to be about 5-6 m (15-18 feet) long.
Tell the student that their "job" is to keep slack in the rope.
The instructor, on the tow board, should have a similar sized rig to the students. The object here is not to "tow" the student, but to simply give the instructor some control over the students direction.
Anyway, good luck.
Remember to make this fun and don't push too hard. You may only get one chance at having her enjoy windsurfing, so try to do everything you can to make it a very positive experience.
Hope this helps,

crazychemical 25th May 2007 01:20 AM

RE: Kids starting on a CARVE99 [2003] with kids rig

And, while I'm sure you don't want to hear this, you are probably not a fully qualified kids windsurfing instructor.
no offence, but a surfer is a surfer and can teach another. I mean, my dad taught me all i know. I've never taken any lessons, i've jsut observed, read, and thought. Half of what i know, i know because i enjoy mechanics a lot and the other part is experience. I'm not saying i'm a really good surfer now, though i've been at it for 2.5 years now. But i'm sure i'm no worse than most.

Duracell 25th May 2007 01:39 AM

RE: Kids starting on a CARVE99 [2003] with kids rig
If you don't have experience teaching in general and teaching kid in paticular I would advise you NOT to use your OWN kid as a guinea pig!

Teaching involves insight, anticipation and tons of experience teaching. Experts quite often are shit teacher, unless they are also experts at teaching too...

Roger 25th May 2007 02:44 AM

RE: Kids starting on a CARVE99 [2003] with kids rig
Hi Crazychemical,
I apologize for stating what I have found to be the truth, 100's of times over the last 10 years.
As Duracell suggests, just because you are a surfer (windsurfer), and learned from your father, does not mean that you and your father did it the "easiest" way.
Kids camps focus on the kids having maximum fun, and less on learning to windsurf.
Kids have a farily short attention span, and they tire quickly when doing things (using muscles) that they've never done before.
So, kids camps are all about ensuring the kids have lots of fun, with kids their own age, while learning to windsurf.
They do things like "pile ups" (how many kids does it take to sink a Start board), let the kids just float around on a big board with no sail or mast foot and play "who's on the board" and who can get them off it.
It's fun and playfulness that will "hook" your child.
Also, teaching your own kids, or wife (significant other) something completely new is normally not a good idea because the problems that come up in the teaching/learning, get transferred somehow into the relationships.
I've heard this....." how can you love me, if when you were trying to teach me to windsurf, all you did was yell at me that I was doing it wrong". I guess you can see where this goes:(
But, it sounds like you are going to do it anyway.
So, kneel on the front of the hybrid formula and let your daughter do the sailing.
At first you can help her with uphauling, getting the board into alignment, stepping behind the mast foot, balancing the rig and sailing off across the wind.
Then you can help here through her first tacks and jibes.
You can put your hand on the bottom of the mast and help her at first, making sure she has good footwork and follows all the steps.
Then you slowly begin to let her take more and more of the load.
If anything happens, you can let her sit on the front of the board and you can sail back to shore or at least give her a "breather" while she recovers her stength and desire to windsurf.
Will you look ridiculous sailing a 2.7 m2 rig.... of course you will, but that's going to be your commitment to teaching your daughter safely, and giving her a fun learning experience.
I teach at least 100 kids per year, and have a very high success rate.
Many of them come back next year to sail with me, but won't sail with mom or dad because they get yelled at.
Do mom and dad teach them the "easy way to windsurf" techniques?
So, I can take them out on a board or use the tow system and the kid can sail around nicely, then they are off the tether and sailing completely on their own, in 10 or 15 minutes from the first time they step onto a board.
But next year they come back and have all these "bad habits" that don't make windsurfing easy. They picked up the bad habits from their parents and other well meaning sailors who haven't thought about what's the easiest way to learn to windsurf.
The techniques we use in the "A Taste of Windsurfing" are quite different from what you see most schools and most adults doing.
We've refined a number of different "technique sets"over the years to what really works for the most students (both adults and kids).
Wish I could come over to Italy and share these techniques with you.
Hope this helps,

drzone 25th May 2007 11:03 AM

RE: Kids starting on a CARVE99 [2003] with kids rig
Hi Roger,
Since most of us can't come to see you at camps, any possibility you can make the "easy way to windsurf" available to the general public, aka parents/teacher wannabe?
YouTube video or the sort.

Roger 25th May 2007 11:14 AM

RE: Kids starting on a CARVE99 [2003] with kids rig
Hi Drzone,
Hmmmmm... Youtube video.....?
Nice, I never thought of that.
I just may do something like what you are suggesting later this summer.
Most of the technique we use is already available on the US Sailing training site.
Also, US Windsurfing sells the "Beth Powell Simulator Drills" CD for a nominal fee.
This simulator sequence, slightly modified, is pretty much what we use.
Only real differences are we teach "a faster turn" tacking (driving the nose of the board up through the eye of the wind with sail power), and
stepping over the mast vice stepping around the mast.
Getting behind the mast foot, balancing the rig, rotate the shoulders (from the hips) to power up the rig, it all pretty much identical to the CD.
Hope this helps,

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