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-   -   Q for Ian: Spin out help with 08 iS101 (http://www.star-board-windsurfing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3857)

superidis 13th May 2008 05:21 PM

Q for Ian: Spin out help with 08 iS101
 
Hi Ian,

I'm a happy owner of a 08 iS101, although I haven't used the board many times yet I liked it from the first moment for it's easy handling & feel, continuous planning and excellent speed. My only problem is that I had several spin out occasions during downwind blasting in wind conditions of 20-25 knots with a 6.8 North Warp F2007 and the 36 Drake Fin provided.
I would like your help which is always very precise and detailed on how to deal with spin out problems. In order to help you more I'll give you some info which might help about the place which is relatively flat with small chop between 10-20 cm wind strength around 15-25knots. I am 1.73 about 83Kg experienced enough for slalom and speed blasting but not competing with a sailing stance outwards and a bit to the back of the board and my foot strap position is on the middle place for the front foot and on the back for the back foot and the sails that I'm using are North Warps F07 6,8 & 7,8.
I know that there are other fin brands that I could try, although I'm not thinking of a replacement, but the new fins are supposed to be improved and better than last year's this is why I'm asking for your advise.
Thanks for your help in advance,

Best Regards
Superidis

P.S:Why do you have only 2 positions for the back foot foot strap compared to the 3 that you had in last year's model?

Tjabo 13th May 2008 09:28 PM

Taty Frans and Chris Pressler both ride the is101 with Maui Fin Company (MFC) 38 cm and they seem to be very pleased with it

Franc from Portugal 14th May 2008 02:16 PM

had the exact same problem, stock 36 fin and frequent spinouts. wind 15-20 knots, i101+7.7 , 73 kg.
this was happenig at the spot whit nice , long waves (0.5-1m)where you could let your speed go- on another spot , with lots of 0.5m chop it wasn't happenig (maybe because i didn't try to go full speed).
paired with 42 stock fin, everything felt very nice (tried it when the wind dropped to 15 knots or less ) and fast although i would suspect that one should be slower with such a big fin.

i think i read somewhere that sanding the fin helps but i wouldn't know where to start since the finish of the fin is without the smallest scratch/dent/defect..

Lessacher 20th May 2008 11:21 PM

Hallo! I work the asymm. fins for tour and retour. 34cm Hyper Duo. 100% carbon.
No spin outs. Good to 8mē sails.
www.designlessacher.com Wolfgang

oadolfss 24th May 2008 04:49 AM

Hi Superidis,
Sorry, no advice for you other than to say that it is probably 80-90% of the time a question of sailing technique, not equipment these days. Try different stance etc.
Here is my question, how does the iS101 feel with the 7,8 - not too big?
Tnx,
oadolfss

superidis 26th May 2008 03:26 PM

Hi to everybody and thanks for your helpful comments, Taty replied to me to another topic about MFC fins but I would like to hear an advice, if there is any, besides replacement.
Oadolfss I haven't tried yet the 7.8 but from other people that I've seen the 101 can carry this sail pretty easily with the bigger fin ofcourse.
I would like to hear what Ian has to say about this issue, is he ok, usually he replies much faster.

B/R
Superidis

superidis 21st August 2008 03:00 PM

Hi Ian,

Now that it seems that you're back could you help me with my problem and generally some sailing tips that I might miss considering the Is 101 '08.

Cheers

Superidis

Pieter Buis 21st August 2008 08:56 PM

Superidis,

maybe this helps a little bit, I sail the 101 till appr. 26 knots with a 7.2 NP RSSlalom and a 40cm Drake fin, above 26kn with the 36 cm fin and 6.3 sail. Boom in the middle so quite low otherwise there is to much pressure on your back foot and to little on your front foot, straps outside and in the last position. This works really fine, without spinouts. I guess you really need some speed for the fin to deal with the pressure. So my findings with the isonics (i also own a 122) is to use bigger fins then your used to as it will make them run more free and make them faster. I am 1.94 m and 94 kg.
Best regards,

Pieter

Ian Fox 22nd August 2008 07:32 AM

Hi Superidis,

Please excuse the previous non reply, missed this one mainly due to too much travel etc in that time.

As long as the fin is not damaged (or defective) then I agree and add to what Peter has commented that some of the factors may be coming from outside the fin itself...

A key issue is that (if the spin is happening ONLY on hi speed downwind runs when well powered) then can be typical of draft/trim control issue caused by a much higher wind loading on the sail (extra wind loading with hi wind plus extra apparent wind from extra board speed) so you need to make sure that your rig is well tuned (correct downhaul for hi speed - to lock the draft well down and fwd in the sail, as well as release the top to lower drag and avoid "lifting" the rider over chop - as compared to mid or low speed beam reaching ). Batten tension should be good (not too much, but definitely not too little for top end) - and while you would typically run a loose (less positive) outhaul for downwind speed, too much negative can/will cause even the best sails to lose draft stabilty - leading towards spinout. Other rig factors that you should check are that your harness lines are long enough (for a good stance at this angle of sailing, usually longer than beam or upwind angles) and (important!) the position of the lines allows a balanced loading onto the rig(boom) at that downwind sailing angle and/or at higher speeds. Boom height too (as Peter wrote) all as part of the "balance" equation. Sounds like a small point here, but get it wrong and you will not get the ideal trim, and one of the usual factors is an overload of power towards the back of rig, compensated by extra sheeting effort thru back hand which in turn requires more back foot pressure (to counterbalance the extra back hand pull) BUT IMBALANCE your OVERALL trim..

Regarding the strap settings, one thing you may like to try is to move the REAR strap forward to the front hole setting ; this has the effect of being able to "calm" the board at hi speed across chop, and (especially for medium height or weight riders) may offer some advantage in these conditions. Forward setting is not always slow...

Regarding technique (which in turn can be influenced by correct rig trim/tune for you in these conditions) one thing to focus on is to really (try to ) stay locked on the power when you are really blasting (in that mode). If (for rig trim reasons - or because it seems to crazy wild) you start to back off and open the rig at full "on the limit", you will release the mast foot drive/pressure and the whole board trim is gone in an instant. If you are already on the limit, then what happens next might be a bit messy, and often equated to a hi speed spinout - or an unscheduled swim.

You faster you go on the rough downwind and the wilder it gets , the more really have to have the confidence to stay fully on the power (which is not just the back hand sheeting in, but the critical drive thru the rig/mastfoot). At first, it might seem like suicide - and often you can nearly prove this as you beack off and it comes true !
But if you can develop trim and then technique (confidence) to keep the (balanced) power really on (and i mean REALLY ON) downwind thru the rough stuff, the results can be significantly better than you would normally thing "possible"....

(anyone been or seen some of the midsize 2008 iS fin / base "destruction" testing we've done sailing 34cm samples in iS101/6.7m will know what I mean - and yes we did a lot of testing in this mode. And yes we broke some. And yes the history of production fins is not fantastic (c/w top end custom) but the 2008 Drakes that made it to production are pretty good - and you should - with everything else being OK be able to get some really good performance from the stock Drake in that mode)

If you want to do quick check on the actual fin, try and swap/borrow an alternate fin (as close to yours as possible) - back to back test (changing nothing else !) in your conditions. You may also find that switching to a slightly more raked fin in these (high/er speed downwind choppy) conditions makes your life (or confidence) a little easier - but you should not need to switch to a bigger fin in these powered 6.7m conditions to reduce spin out.

For use with the 7.8m (not really the problem as questioned or discussed here) then typically the best fin combo will be something in the 42/44 range while the 7.8 is in or near it's sweetspot. Samller fins could be used in fast, overpower 7.8 mode or if you were trying for GPSSS "top speed" (BROAD DOWNWIND) in lighter (7.8) conditions.

Please try all these factors and let us know how you go...

Cheers ~ Ian

Franc from Portugal 22nd August 2008 02:42 PM

to add a little to this fin discussion, after few months on is101 '08:
it was difficult to really get used to the thought to use 42 cm fin in 96 litre slalom board, but from my experience in the end it worked relly well in low to medium wind (~12-17,18knots). in higher wind (~15-22,23knots) i used ,with the same sail, 38 mfc slalom fin ,mostly because i couldn't find a way for stock 36 fin to work (frequent spinouts) and based on taty's recommendations. in my experience this fin was a good allround fin, but did not really excel in any conditions. it was ok when the wind got lighter or stronger, sea surface rougher or flatter and occasional spinouts were result of to much bakfoot pressure from my side (as opposed to 36 drake that spinouted in when you could least expect it). it's main advantage was the price that was 2-3 times lower then benchmark deboichet fins(after seeing on mfc web site that they also have custom fins i can only guess that taty actually used custom fins?).
for smaller sail i found a perfect match in select superfast 33 fin (5.5 sail)


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