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mim 13th January 2009 04:53 PM

which sail
Hey guys,

I have a delicate problem. I want to buy a camber sail in the range of 7sqm. And now, I have severne element 8.5 and S-Type 137. Aero 117 and severne NCX 7.0 (this i do not like on the fact i do not like it on Aero as well but it is still much better than on the s-type). And I now I am buying S-Type 115 (would like something for this toy)..i was thinking about Overdrive 7.0 or 7.5 or Element 7.5.

The NCX problem is that I miss the constant pull of a camber sail, and as it gets gusty it is also not so comfortable to ride.

So, which would be a good combination to my old stuff:
NCX 7.0 - Element 7.5 - Element 8.5
NCX 7.0 - OverDrive 7.5 - Element 8.5
NCX 7.0 - OverDrive 7.0 - Element 8.5

I want speed and high-wind stability, and it still would be nice to have the possibility of waterstarting (waterstarting the 8.5 is hell of a job) in choppy conditions. I will use it on a lakes (short period 1meter chop) and on the see as well (long period, up to 3meter see waves) :rolleyes:. I am 95kg dry!

Thanks for help you guys.

PS: I do not want the code red, not that it is a bad sail but I want something more robust...:D

mim 18th January 2009 08:38 PM

hey people...
somebody, anybody...

Jean-Marc 20th January 2009 11:38 PM


OK, you want an easy sail to waterstart: pick either a no cam sail or a cambered sail but with narrow luff in order to minimize water entry. The wideluff top of the line racing sails la Code Red are a real pain if you don't like swimming a lot, so better avoid them. I can waterstart the 11m2 Code Red fairly easily, providing the luff never touches and fills up with water. Once water is inside the wideluff, just forget it : time for uphaul.

Now, could you please be more specific about your board quiver and what do you want to do with them, because it's a bit confusing and unclear to me. Basically, you'll have to decide which sail for which board you want to use. Some sails are a good match, other are not : an Overdrive on the Aero is a mismatch IMHO.

Lastly, could you please elaborate a bit more on why do you think waterstarting the Element 8.5 sail is so difficult for you? What's wrong? Sail itself, lack of skills, or wheather conditions?

Cheers !


mim 21st January 2009 01:05 AM

Hi JM...
so from the very beginnig.

I am gonna use the sail with S-Type 115 or 137. I actually thing about buying 7.5 and 6.5 to fit better the wind condition.

I do not want a no-cam sail because I miss the constant pull of a camber sail, I feel myself better with a proper sized camber sail than on a proper size nocam sail (from a certain size above of course...7sqm). I want the sail for speed oriented freeride in gusty wind, or overpowered.

I never said I will be using Aero with Overdrive.

Waterstarting 8.5...I when it not full of water it is easy. I mention the one succesful waterstart, with sail that was fully in the water, and 3meter waves. The problem with waterstarting is when the sails is full of water, when it is not it is generally no problem.

I guess this is enough.

I am thing of selling the NCX and complete my cambered sails set like this:

Overdrive 6.5, Overdrive 7.5 (on ST 115) and Element 8.5 (ST 137).

Hope I answered everything;)
Ciao Michal.

geo 21st January 2009 09:22 PM

Hi Michal,
IF you are looking for high wind stability, then the eventual difficulties in waterstarting are supposed to be a cheap tradeoff for full camber performances. Plus in my experience one should also consider that a large volume "wide" mast sleeve is not instantly flooded when falling, and often may act as an effective buoyant device if one does not wait too much before waterstarting. So it is not said that a fully cambered wide sleeve sail is harder to waterstart than a 2 or 3-cam narrow sleeve one. In other words: when I decided to go for wide sleeve sails I was worried, now I am no more.
Also bear in mind, cambered sails usually have tube battens in them, that is what makes them easily damaged when sailing in (breaking) waves. Even non cambered, slalom oriented sails may have tubes in them. Are you going to sail in 3 meter breakers, or just in non breaking 3 meter waves? If it is the second, it should be no problem; if it is the first, you decide.
As for a suggestion, Maui Sails TR-3/4/5 in 6.6 and 7.6. Extremely easy sails with total stability. The ease will make waterstarting less frequent. Really no need for holding back.

mim 21st January 2009 10:53 PM

Hi geo,

well I am more sweetwater sailor (might change soon) but occasionally i make trip to the see. As I was in december last time there were 3 meter see waves, that are of course breaking as they approach the beachbreak. Well it is better to stay further away were the waves are massive but not breaking, and when than it is nothing dramatic...getting away of the beach and back is different story...No risk, no fun!

thanks for the opinoin on waterstarting.
Ciao Michal.

Jean-Marc 23rd January 2009 09:23 PM


For speed-oriented freeride and overpowered condition, no question you'll need a very stable draft, especially foryour weight. Overdrive is a nice match with SType : grunty in the bottom wind range, fast in the upper range, easy to waterstart and easy to jibe.
For ultimate speed performance, you can upgrade to Code Red, but you know that sail already. Or stick a 100% carbon mast (2008 Red Line or 2009 Enigma) into the sleeve of an Overdrive to boost its performance.

However, the Element is a questionable match for overpowered speed-oriented freeriding. Grunty, yes, but draft is not as stable as that of an Overdrive. Test drive an Overdrive if you can before making your mind.

Cheers !


mim 23rd January 2009 09:41 PM

Hi JM,

I have the element in bigger size...and it was not so good when it was really owerpowered. In low and medium powered condition it is very nice and comfortable. I want to make a step toward more speed and racing oriented riding but i don't want the step to be too large.
I hope it will be OK with overdrive since i alredy ordered them (6.5 and 7.5). i will ride BlueLine masts.

Hope it'll be fine.

Ciao Michal.

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