74/80 kode v 76 quad
I have been banging my head about over a 75ish liter board for a year. just when i think i am there the quad comes out!
both boards are designated wave boards i know. i ride the 86 kode which is more or a freewave shape. i want a smaller board for higher winds.
what are the main performance differences between the kode and quad in straight line speed, carving, planing etc and which conditions are they most suitable to? what does one board "do" better at than the other?
is one of these more suitable to bump and jump?
they both seem to rip!
Before Ola chimes in, I'll offer you my experience. I use a Kode predecessor Acid74 for high wind bump/jump (also a step down from Kombat86). I'm 86kg gusty freshwater sailor, so it's used only when it's really howling. Couldn't be happier with it's behavior/control in 30-40+ knots and chaotic water state. The differences may come down to personal riding style, but I believe most of bump/jump sailors will prefer "solid directional" ride (acid/Kode) over a "skatey loose" one (evo or quad). If you actually ride waves, then it's another story.
What's your weight and what sails will you use?
Screamer, like you i weight 86 kg +/-. that said in saltwater thus i don't need 30-40 knots to get on 75 liters. i would be riding 4-5 meter sails.
i will be on the waves for sure. mostly on shore though...unfortunately.
what i really want to know is how fast is this quad in a straight line as i am a minimalist and like boards to cover a wide range of possible conditions without giving the feeling that one wished one was on another board (size apart of course).
Hi Switchfoot. With the usual disclaimers that early planing, upwind etc depend a lot of technique also I would say that the Quad 76 get going earlier and goes upwind better than both the K74 and K80 unless maybe, maybe if you put some huge fins on the latter two. But the Kodes have a bit higher top speed. Not that it would matter in waves though as the Quad is also an excellent jumper.
If you look for a wide range, I think the Kode 74 is a bit too small. An excellent high wider like Screamer writes, yes. But too small to be an allrounder. So I believe teh relevant comparison is between the K80 and Q76. I would say these two have a similar range, but with an edge to the Q76 in light wind.
Like Screamer writes, it is also hard to say which conditions the two boards prefer. Both will handle pretty much anything. It's even harder to distinguish now with the quad than it was between Kode and EVO since the Quad improves on the EVO in planing, upwind and the "directionalness" of the ride. But the Kode still has much more of that classic straight line feel that you know from your bigger Kode (but with more control due to smaller size and narrower tail). The Quad delivers at least the same amount of fin grip, but not with the sem "definition" as a single fin.
In turns, the Quads are looser and I would say much easier for making the most of on shore wave riding. The Kode 80 can be made to rip it up very, very well too, but requires the sailor to push it more: ride with higher speed, drive it through the turns with more power and precision etc.
In the end, if it is pure B&J, I would still say the Kode 80. But the more wave riding you through into the mix, the more interesting the Quad will be. And there are a lot less compromises in B&J performance on the Quad then it was with the EVO so you will not have to give up a lot.
Reasons to go for the K: in your first post you mention bump/jump and you already know that ride from your K86, so it would be more of the same in a smaller package.
On the other hand, if you want to ride waves frontside in onshore conditions (not just blast, jump and gybe), I suppose a Quad is the ticket (not that I would know anything about it ;-)
I would disagree a bit with Ola about board size/range IF you go for a Kode: yes a K80 would be more alrounder at your weight, no question about that. But there are a couple of reasons to go smaller IMHO:
-You already have a very wide range board that's K86
-You will lose some higher wind range with a K80 compared to K74. Yes you'll have more range overall (low+high) but also a big overlap with 86.
-From what you wrote I understand you have solid reliable coastal conditions (which is not my case) so you will start to use 74 in less average than 30
-Even with a 74, I think there is still useful overlap with a K86, it's not like you have a "hole" in covering all conditions: depending on conditions you can safely use sails from 4.5 to 5.0 on both boards.
I've sailed all of the boards mentioned here except a K74. Regarding high wind performance at my weight, 83 kg, I find the PA 74 feels closer to the K80 than the K80 is to the K86. I actually prefer the K80 over the PA74 for high wind B/J. However, I prefer the Q76 over all of them because it is a unique ride compared to the single fin boards and it holds its own in B/J sailing. I find it an easy board to sail that does many things as well or better than my other small boards, so I end up on it if there is enough wind for it regardless of whether it is b/j or wave conditions.
Interesting thoughts Ray (also on the other thread about '06 acid80).
Since I haven't tried Acid or Kode in 80l volume I would like to hear why do you prefer it over 74 (I guess alround range)? Also in fully powered 4.0 or 3.7?
Sorry Switchfoot for stealing the topic a bit.
Part of my preference for the PA-06 80 over my PA-07 74 or the PA-07 80 I think has to do with the 74 and the newer model 80 being more dedicated for wave sailing. I don't find them as smooth of a ride in really harsh chop compared to my older 80. I also sail in a place where the wind isn't always steady so the 80 carries me better on small sails if the wind drops a bit. I also like the PA80 in really high winds where I'll sail a bit backed off on the power in the gusts. As I mentioned on the other thread I'm such a fan of the PA80-06 that I have two of them. I haven't sailed the K80 a lot because I prefer the Q76, but to me it feels distinctly smaller than the PA80s and a bit smoother than the newer versions of the PAs.
Regarding the Quad and high winds in the Gorge this summer, I found I was carrying 5.0 when most people my size were on 4.5s and sometimes smaller and if the wind dropped I could stay out without changing up.
Good discussion guys. We're now in the "fine but sometimes important details" league.
And I can add: The Kode 80 do feel smaller than the PA80. Some mags have commented that the Kode (74) feels "sharper" than the PA, but I would say the Kodes are softer. But a Kode in WoodCarbon will by lightness and stiffness give a shaper sensation but I still think it has a smoother way of going through the water adding to the "smaller" and more controllable feel. But also remember that Kevin P (85kg+) sailed the whole first elimination in Cabo Verde on a Kode 80 and that was ultralight 5.7 winds. So apparently it is not THAT small in real life. Anyway, its an awesome board that I also think is noticebaly better in slow/mushy/onshore waves than the PA was. The probably did some fin tuning of the rocker too.
But the Quad 76 is for sure a unique ride, and Ray nails the B&J-ability of it well, I think.
(re-posting this one from another thread - as it's pretty relevant here too)
In that mode the PA80-06 remains a very strong benchmark (and a keeper in my 95kg quiver).
For heavier riders, the rocker of the Kode80 doesn't seem to work quite so well - and the Kode80 seems that little bit more hi wind focussed...(perfect for mid weight, but cribs that little bit of mid range down for the heavier guys..)
The one that I have been having a real blast on lately has been the QUAD86 (very surprising for me as I had expected it to be solidly a pure wave riding tool and relatively slow - and I'm the last guy on our crew wanting a slow ride - no matter what!!).
In fact, it has very good bottom end/early planing (for size/dedicated wave board), very easy and balanced to sail in sub planing mode- and remarkably easy to grind upwind sub planing too. But who cares on that compared to the real stuff? Well it's slightly vulnerable on "mid range speed"(not so easy to ride up early in the range onto fin as good single) but then quite OK competitive in rough (chopfest) top end despite all those fins. (the full stats: actual deep downwind can be slightly outpaced, beam reach it's good very defensible speed in well powered mode against even freerides and pinching upwind it can actually take distance out of all but the best of them)
And bashing chop the rough water control is simply another league ; yes, I agree, its not what QUAD was EVOlved FOUR - but it sure as hell works a treat when abused that way too ! Underfoot the ride is not harsh or slappy - and with loads of grip the rider is free to concentrate a lot of weight on the back without the need for as much single fin subtlety as normal. That's to say you can go sick and get away with more.
QUAD is effectively allowing us to ride a board "one size" up from what we would otherwise use in same conditions, which in turn has the subtle but real effect of allowing slightly larger rigs to be carried even more into overpower range- effectively increasing the sailable range of the board/rig. BS? If you haven't done it yourself, maybe- but once you've experienced it the benefit is there.
Yes, a Kode86 can fit that slot too - and will do it with even more speed and efficiency (mid range speed on Kode is definitely a + point) but as the water state gets uglier and the actually (achievable) speeds slower, control is king. And if you want to play more in these conditions rather than just try to blow off every guy in sight, well might be time to think "slow". Because it ain't really...
If iSonic is the F1 car, Futura might be the GT-R. But QUAD is for sure the WRX.
And I know which one wins in the forest.
Cheers ~ Ian
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