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KTM450EXC 9th August 2010 05:36 AM

Rio Update
Hi All, I feel that Ive gone backward since my intensive intro to windsurfing last year however things are beginning to slot in once again...

Firstly a big thank you to Roger on advising a Rio M...I'm 90Kgs and its spot on....The board looks 'uge and weighs a ton so this is my real drive to improve at the moment :)

I purchased a 6.7M Neil Pryde Tempo to aid practise with harness / planing.( the temp was the only sail to fit on a 430 mast and my boom - fantastic)

So recently the wind has been kind and given me an oppo to "speed test".......

Yes I have had this fabulous experience, hooked into the harness and flying but totally out of control and thinking "this is going to hurt". My experience was that I wrested with sail but once planing and in harness the sail seemed to become very light.

What I cannot figure out was that even with mast set in forward position, the board was lifting so high out of the water that is was highly unstable...I'm not using footstraps and the dagger board was in down position.

Today I have fitted drake straps in the intermediate position. I'm a size 10 and the straps seem real tight with just my toes poking thro straps. I'm hoping they will loosen up a little.

Ive also got the option of a 56cm drake deep tuttle race fin...would this help??

I can really see the benifit of a dagger board for upwind performance and having an EVA deck as the board has had a few wipeouts recently...

All in all I'm having great fun even tho it may not be glamorous to watch I bet it amused a few!


Roger 9th August 2010 10:20 AM

Wow, this is great news.
If you are going to be planing (i.e. wind > 15 knots with your 6.7 NP Tempo) you need to retract the centerboard completely.
The reason the board is "railing up" and giving you control "issues" is a direct result of having the center board down. It created too much lift, and could potentially break off.
No one uses the centerboard when fully planing as it's much easier and faster to sail upwind "on the fin".
Your 56 cm Drake fin should take you upwind very nicely, but you will need to change your technique a bit as you will be "foot steering" (i.e. tipping the board upwind (heels down) to go upwind and tipping the board flat to slightly lee rail down to head downwind.
At some point you will get fully hooked in, and have your sail raked all the way back until the foot of the sail is parellel with the top of your board. When you reach this point, the steering will change again, but only slightly. To go off the wind (downwind) you will push down with your toes to roll the board quite a bit to leeward (lee rail lower than windward rail) and un rake the sail slightly.
To sail upwind, you will roll your board very slightly lee rail down and push across the top of the fin very hard with your back foot. Maybe even pull upwind slightly with your front foot.
Then you will be going upwind completely on the lift (horizontal) from your fin.
With the daggerboard down, you use rig steering. With the dagger board up you use footsteering.
As far as the footstraps, you can open up the outer cover, and pull the center strap up to fully disengage the velcro. Then pull up on the footstrap to get the center strap to pull around the metal bail at the front of the strap. When you get it adjusted to your foot size, re-engage the velcro on the center strap and close the cover.
If the footstraps are too narrow, move the footstrap screws one hole wider. You can run the center hole in the back and the front hole in the front, or vice versa.
I run all my footstraps this way on all my boards.
I like to be able to twist my foot slightly in the strap to put my heel more forward or back but I can cinch down the adjustment so my foot is retained on the board with just my toes showing on the inboard side.
Please retract your dagger board when you think you might get planing.....
1/ To prevent the daggerboard blade from breaking off.
2/ To give yourself the best possiblity of planing with good control and good speed.
Hope this helps,

KTM450EXC 9th August 2010 02:28 PM

Many thx for your support and positive remarks Roger!

Just to clarify, I have the std fin on board at the moment but a local shop has the drake R15 56cm....Is this the ideal fin for more performance OR is there somthing better OR should I just wait until I get my next board??

I'm struggling to understand what a larger fin would do in terms performance..?

Its really good that you informed me the dagger board should be up when planing......I really did have great speed for a long distance but it was like wheelie-ing a motocross bike - crazy but fun!

Somthing else I learnt and hopefully and a benifical remark for others starting out is to practise the basics with a smaller sail......I was it itching to get the bigger sail/ power but even a 1.2M increase requires significantly more strength to physically handle as well as "filling the board area" and limiting movement.

Will try the foot steering with DB in up position....I really love the way the Rio "turns on a pin" both up and downwind by raking the sail.

I do wear shoes on board so getting in the straps is likely to be tight but I'll report back after next windy session...


Roger 9th August 2010 09:29 PM

The Drake R15 56 cm would be a major improvement over the stock Drake 41 cm Shallow Water "Cleaver" fin.
The 56 cm will help you to plane earlier, will take you upwind better, so it's a very positive upgrade.
IMHO you do need a larger sail to get the most from your Rio M.
At 90 Kg. you can most likely lower your minimum threshold on the Rio M from the 15+ knots needed with your 6.7 m2 NP Tempo to around 10-12 knots with a 7.5- 8.5 m2 rig.
I checked the NP site on the Tempo and it looks pretty good.
The NP Helium 7.5 or 8.5 on a 100% carbon mast will only weigh about 1 kg. more and give you alot more sailing (planing actually) days on the water.
It might weigh less if you do not have a high carbon 430 mast in your Tempo.
As far as a larger sail taking up more of the deck area on your Rio M, we need to talk about that a bit.
Somehow, you are keeping the sail (or your body) over the board too much.
As the sail is sheeted in and then raked back your body needs to move back on the board and lean outboard to counterbalance the side leeward pull from the sail.
So, your body and the sail should not be vying for the same deck space on the board.
My guess is that you are not moving back far enough (but you soon will) and that you are most likely
oversheeting to some degree.
Keep working on getting planing more, moving back on your board progressively as your speed increases,
and use the larger fin.
Then look for a larger sail and you will be planing far more and your quality time on the water will increase.
Hope this helps,

olzcyk 10th August 2010 03:12 AM


All iron facts from Roger but one thing i disagree: the Drake straps are useless if you have size 10 foot with boots on. Been there, done that. They just don't stretch enough.

Do yourself a favor and buy a set of Da Kines or some other brands.

Roger 10th August 2010 08:05 AM

Hi Olzcyk,
Since I have small (but very wide) feet I've never had that problem.
I've found most sailors don't really exert the necessary force to pull
the inner strap fully around the metal wire bail, so they give up and
cannot open the straps enough.
I loosen the inner strap, then put both knees on the board and pull
the center of the strap up with practically all my strength.
Then they are a bit loose and I can cinch them down for a really
nice fit that allows my heel to be placed in different positions along
the rail to achieve different weighting an help speed and handling of
the board.
The gentleman who owns Starboard has fairly narrow feet, so he likes
all the boards to have straps that are set really close together (too close
for my much shorter but wider feet).
I've found that spreading the mounting screws out at least one hole makes
them fit my wide feet nicely.
Your mileage.... and adjustments.... may vary.
Hope this helps,

KTM450EXC 10th August 2010 03:29 PM

Thank you Roger... so to conclude is it worth me investing in the bigger fin OR putting the $$$ towards a second board that I will purchase in winter (my daughter aged 8Yrs will learn on the rio next year hence the desire to progress and probably I will get more time on the water).

The NP Tempo is really being raved about here in Europe and it was recently reviewed in France by critics who actually prefered the Tempo to the Hellcat!! Would the 7.7M Tempo be sufficent OR would I be better off going for the 8.5 Helium.

Regarding "space on the board" or lack of, I think this is due to low winds when I'm holding the sail in a vertical position and using my strength to support as opposed to wind counterbalancing. I have a 430/ 45% carbon mast with a 5.5M tushingham sail and the difference in physical strength required to support my 6.7M sail is large indeed - again I'm talking low wind 10 knots say...

In terms of Footstraps, I'll have a play!

I guess its a case of more overtime to earn the money for new toys.....And I thought this game was a low cost bang for buck :D (compared to motocross it is!!)


Roger 10th August 2010 07:54 PM

OK, a 45% carbon 430 cm mast weighs significantly more than a 460 cm 100% carbon mast.
The thing that's making yoiur rig seem heavy is the mast!
At 90 Kg., yes I think the larger Helium 8.5 would be the wiser investment if you want to get planing
really early.
A 2nd board would be a good idea, but the larger fin will be something you would need to get the most from your Rio M.
You do not need to buy a new fin, just a good used Tuttle or Deep Tuttle in the 54-58 range.
A 7.7 m2 would be much better than your 6.7, but an 8.5 m2 is really what you need to get the most
from the Rio M at your weight.
Also, I suggested the Helium as it's supposed to be a very powerful light wind sail.
But this will be a large investment as you need a larger boom and a 490 mast.
The mast and boom do not need to be new, and can be considered long term investments as you can
carry them forward to other newer sails that require a mast and boom of this size.
How much wind are you sailing in most of the time, and are there times during the day you would like to
sail but the wind is not strong enough?
Hope this helps,

KTM450EXC 13th August 2010 05:12 AM

NP V8 + Futura 133
Roger, been offered the above package with a 95% carbon mast on a great deal.....

Would the V8 be a suitable sail with my Rio....

Would a Future 133 be too small for my weight...I know they are more forgiving than other boards..all gear is 2008.

This deal gets me a board to progress on and the sail needed...

Thx for your advice.


Roger 13th August 2010 07:54 AM

A V8 with a compatible 95% carbon mast would be perfect.
The Futura 133 should suit your weight just fine.
It will, of course, take a little "getting used to" after your Rio M,
but it's well within what most sailors can adjust to.
Go for it!

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