Old 17th August 2006, 10:04 PM   #11
MA_Pete
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hardie:

Per my other post on the iSonic thread, I use a 51 cm True Ames Shallow Water Weed fin on my F-Type 148 (now iSonic 155), with a 9.5, my largest sail at this time. It is supposed to have as much lift as a 65-70 cm Formula fin. It has been working well for me with the 9.5.

I would bet it would be not as good as the 75 cm formula-style fin on the Apollo, but that it still would be okay.

I have tried both the 43 cm True Ames Blade Weed and the Gsport 42 cm DC-Driver fins with F-Type 158 and 148. Both spin out like crazy, especially with a 9.5. So if you can live with a 51 cm shallow water weed fin it would probably work okay for the Apollo and great for the iSonic 155.

(I go down to the 44 cm Shallow Water Weed for 8.5 and below...)

-Pete
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Old 18th August 2006, 12:39 AM   #12
steveC
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Pete and Hardie,

At many venues, weeds are a compelling obstacle that is very difficult to ignore. In the past, I was always very disappointed with the performance of weedfins, even the True Ames ones. Ultimately, I bought a 20" SB Weed, and it worked fairly well, but it was a lot of fin. I ultimately sold it after destroying my 8.1 in late 2004. However, I recently bought a new 8.3 and found myself needing another big weedfin. This time around I bought a 34cm Lessacher carbon Duo Weed in light of my excellent results sailing with one of Lessacher's 28cm carbon Duo Weed S fins in combination with a 7.0. I can't tell how impressed I am with his weedfins. They offer excellent upwind drive with absolutely no spinout, despite their much shallower depth. Surprisingly, they perform so well without any front overhang in the finbox. In my opinion, Lessacher is offering "the" benchmark in weedfins. I believe that his use of asymmetric foiling is the secret. Very different, yes, but they truely perform. Do yourselves a favor and check them out at the following website.

http://www.cameraid.com/Lessacher/

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Old 18th August 2006, 02:39 AM   #13
Ken
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

It looks like the apollo is a long formula board with less volume than the 161, plus a longer fin. No doubt, the apollo will outperform the formula in sub planing conditions.

The question is - will the apollo outperform the 161 in light wind planing conditions (6-8 knots) if the 161 has a 75cm fin? Once you have pumped up to planing speed, the board length isn't an issue, but the volume is. Seems like the 161 with more volume would have the advantage over the apollo, if both have a 75 cm fin.

Am I missing something here? Does the added length help achieve planing speed when pumping in 6-8 knots? With all things being equal, if both boards are planing side by side in 8 knots, will the water lines (wetted surface) be the same or different.

Just curious about the concept.
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Old 18th August 2006, 05:27 AM   #14
PaulM
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

I don't get it. The Olympic testers tried a formula with 85cm fin but rejected it before, so why will they go for Apollo ? They emphasised they need to race at all the international venues, not just the games.
Now if Apollo had a lifting/pivoting fin then just maybe the wind range might be enough.
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Old 18th August 2006, 07:38 AM   #15
MA_Pete
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

steveC:

Thanks for the tip and the link on the Lessacher fins. I will check them out...

-Pete
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Old 18th August 2006, 04:18 PM   #16
Steen2000
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Ken, I believe the longer length will make it plane earlier. So you plane when F161 doesn't.

SteveC: What about the lift/early planing of such a shorter light wind fin? One thing is spin-out another is getting onto the plane. How does Lessachers fins perform regarding that important issue????????
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Old 18th August 2006, 05:12 PM   #17
Remi
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Ken,

If we compare the Apollo against the F 161 with the 75cm fin, Apollo we will win by far in light wind. The rocker is more lower with more lenght with a tail of 84,5cm. This help a lot for plainig hability, not the volume.

The water line close to be the same with the help of the 75cm fin. With the 70 cm fin the water line is in the avantage of the F161, but Apollo still wining.

All the best
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Old 18th August 2006, 05:21 PM   #18
Remi
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Paul M,

I was their when they make this test in Guarda Lake, but it was with Formula with a narow tail compare to the Apollo. The limit wind to race is normaly 6 knots and right now the Apollo can plane even under this limit with a 11m and his 75cm fin. I know they race sometimes under this limit, but not much.
So the question is do they want to continue to race with extremely heavy board for only 1 knots under the limit? When you can plane all the time with less physical effort and maximum pleasure?

All the best
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Old 18th August 2006, 07:22 PM   #19
scotty
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi Remi,

I think the Apollo concept is great. But how would the Apollo work compared to the current RSX in 20 knots of wind?

Anyway by 2012 the Apollo will be superseded by something newer and better, so perhaps by then the world of pumping will be over!

This would give to less breakages of equipment possibly?
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Old 18th August 2006, 09:38 PM   #20
lucofede
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Default RE: Apollo Vs F161

Hi SB team:

Which sail would be the ideal to achieve all the Apollo early planing potential.
In the marketing blurb is mentioned ?a softer, earlier planing rig concept?.

I would be a frerace sail (V8, overdrive, etc), a full race sail (Code Red, RS6) or you are working on a specific sail for this board?

Best regards

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