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Old 14th September 2006, 10:05 PM   #11
Ken
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

George USA39,

I agree, it's a good thing to be designing boards that perform well in lighter winds, but there is a cost.

I only race 6 or so times a year, so I will not likely have a quiver of formula boards. But be sure that at some race, if I am still on my F160, and a fellow competitor shows up on an apollo, I may get my butt kicked by a less skilled sailor. I can live with that, but won't be real happy about it.

On the other hand, I may choose to go the way of the Apollo to maximize my TOW. But if I get into a windy regatta, I may have to sit on the beach.

Life is sooooo hard.
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Old 15th September 2006, 12:10 AM   #12
steveC
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

Hi Ken,

Having more than one board offers significant versatility, and its hard to see the downside in that. The one thing that has become apparent to me is that so many folks are replacing their boards yearly. Unless you're sponsered, that's a mighty expensive luxury in my mind. Personally, I doubt that there is that much innovation yearly to warrant buying a new board each year, but the drive to have the latest and greatest runs strong in some folks blood.

I guess the point I wanted to make would be to pick up that new Apollo and not replace your F160 this year or the next. Getting into replacing a board every two to four years allows you to develop a strong quiver of boards to make the most of the conditions. Of course, that strategy wouldn't simplify the transportation issues of hauling a ton of stuff around. Really though, the problem only becomes more daunting and costly if one travels to races via the airlines.

Still, George makes a very strong point above. Time on the water is the true benefit, especially if you have a competitive edge. Given the idea that a 75cm fin is part of the Apollo's core strength, it is very likely that FW rules could be changed a bit to allow the larger fin. With that change, I think it makes real sense to modify the rules to allow a sailor to change boards on a race by race basis so that one is not fated with enduring a poor choice in a regatta.

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Old 15th September 2006, 01:55 AM   #13
JW22
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

The Apollo may be targeted at the minimal low wind conditions. Most of us know that it will mean that you need a longer straight in the scoop rocker line. That will have its backside in the stronger wind and wave circumstances where the shorter straight boards (if there is sufficient windstrenght) will be vafourable.

So for allround formula conditions the Apollo may be just a bit too specialised to the windminimum and I don't think that formula sailors will bring two boards to a competition and then pick one for that specific scene. But we wait and see.

One thing is again applaudable, and that is sticking out ones neck again (that is starboard off course and not me ) to think out of the box and deliver something exciting new. We will wait and see. If only one could test these boards for a while before picking ones favorite, that would be great. Just give me a 161, a Apollo and a Serenity and I will tell after three months which I will buy

Just hope formula will no throw the great concept away with the bathwater when changes ar to slow or too quick. It is a balance to keep most exciting and trille about it enhough.
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Old 15th September 2006, 10:51 PM   #14
Ken
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

Steve C,

Personally, I can manage my board quiver without many problems. I turn over my formual boards every three years, but if I add an Apollo at some point, that will be an extra $1,800 US.

The concept behind formula was one board three sails, which has worked well for the serious racers. Adding another board just makes it that much more hassel to manage all the gear. For the sponsored sailors, cost isn't the issue, but transportation will be.

Most top formula racers get by with three sails, with 9.0 being there smallest. Amauteur racers like me have to go down to smaller sails when it hits 20 to 30 knots, so three sails won't cut it for me.

It will be interesting to see where the Formula rules will go, now that there is a board that can drop the wind minimums a bit.
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Old 16th September 2006, 12:16 AM   #15
steveC
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

Hi Ken,

I'm encouraged that you're one of those sailors that keeps boards for a number of years. It's a good thing to get your money's worth. I'm one that likes to get 5-7 years out a board if they can hold up. I've got a 7 year old slalom board that I will be replacing for 2007. It's still very fast and viable (at 11.5 lbs.), but its getting soft in a couple places on the deck.

Anyway, regarding the Apollo, there's always the opportunity to leverage off the used market when the 2008 models come out next August and cut your entry cost greatly. By then, there's a good chance that the value of the design will be proven enough to warrant serious consideration, if not for racing, maybe just for fun and more time on water planing.

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Old 16th September 2006, 07:15 PM   #16
windstock
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

to make it more interesting, let's perpose a change to the rule.
not register your board for the event, butregister the board for the season,no,?.
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Old 18th September 2006, 02:59 AM   #17
RonnieS
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

Hey windstock, great pic , tell us more!
RonnieS
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Old 19th September 2006, 03:34 AM   #18
milk laser
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

I'm posting this text here , because earlier posted in wrong place.

I'm absolutely against Apollo. I'm against what it brings to FW comunity, to small local communities. It doubles costs for racers. It's cocial, not financial side. It eliminates weekend club racing from scene, because again you must have a lot of equipment. It starts equipment wars again.
Formula was fantastic class before Apollo arived. Only one board was enough to race every weekend all year long. So STARBOARD guys, don't register it to be legal IFWC board. Let it be as it is, but don't touch FW!!! If you'll register Apollo for IFWC, I'll made it not valid for local and national competitions for a year or two. I have an experience with an old style slalom which required more than one board. It died. Every racing discipline will die very quickly if it requires more than 1 board and 1-2 sails. Also more than one board killed and is killing children sport.
Let it be experimental board until all the industry will agree on its place. If it is Apollo class then it is Apollo. Not formula. Leave windsurfers in silence. Don't f*ck their brains with early planing progress. I see progress in marketing only

Best regards
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Old 19th September 2006, 09:01 AM   #19
Remi
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

Hi Milk Laser,

Their is no marketing plan here, just a new board to open your mind of what Apollo can give to the Formula Class. Particulary help to valid races in light wind condition. If you look to what happen in Portugal, Leba and Korea, you can see easily that the Formula equipment that we have right now need to be improve in this light winds (sails, boards and fins). The Apollo open a screen with his wider tail and 75cm fin.
The plan is definitely to make only one board next year who cover both F 161 and Apollo, but with a 75cm fin.
All the best
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Old 19th September 2006, 09:22 AM   #20
steveC
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Default RE: Starboard Appollo/Formula Windsurfing

Hi milk laser,

While I can see your point about wanting to race on a fixed design to limit the cost to be competitive, I often wonder whether the industry and the racing commumity needs to be anchored in design concepts from a fixed period in time. It's like saying, hey I can't handle tomorrow because it doesn't meet my pocketbook, or my limited vision. Doesn't Formula Experience meet the budget class quite effectively already?

Well, frankly, I glad that designers are focused on the visions and concepts to keep new ideas alive. What do you think that the top board, sail and fin designers want to do year after year? Why frustrate the folks with the ideas? If change in the numbers of windsurfers occurs because of the direction of the sport, then that's fate. I've been windsurfing over 20 years now, and was I ever disappointed with the potent flow of ideas and innovation? No. Really, I think the industry has stepped up to a broadly varied marketplace at all interest levels in the sport. Many folks have actually complained that leading brands have too many models available.

If you want to stick to a certain design concept, that's a respectable option. When you enter a race, and you do your best and finish, you will be recognized for your performance in the class you're competing in. Yacht club folks race all the time integrating different classes in events all the time. Everyone must decide the limits and boundardies of their game, and that's respectable and fair.

Even though I've never been a racer, I've still had to define my commitment, and its associative cost, in my participation of the sport. I've got true wealth. Yearly upgrades across your quiver aren't necessarily required. I make it a point to be conservative, so I can make the best of my budget and opportunities.

Hey, I ordered a brand new slalom board today. I don't even know what it will exactly look like, but I know that I'm going to be happy with the outcome. It's like rolling the dice, and knowing that I will win every time. Then, I'll ride the crest of performance for years, even though tomorrow might be a bit different than today. Ferrari comes out with exciting new designs all the time, but I see no reason not to invest at a point in time. The top of the line product stands out over the test of time. No worries.

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