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Old 14th February 2008, 01:44 AM   #41
steveC
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Over my long career in the field of procurement for a leading aerospace firm, the importance of quality and compliance to specifications was always a crucial focus point in our business relationships with other firms. Unfortunately, one finds that not all firms have their act together for one reason or another. In trying to work through the problems, one finds out pretty quickly about the integrity and commitment of a firm and its representatives. If a firm ultimately didn't measure up, they were history. Conversely, firms that had their act together, and problems do test that in many ways, became long term business partners we could rely on.

Really, I think one applies the same kind framework and expectations in our personal life, whether its about buying the products we need, or even in our relationships with others. Actually, in all likelihood, its much closer to our core interests, and therefore more important overall.

I can say that I've had pretty good luck with windsurfing equipment, and I haven't often needed to address warranty issues. But not to long ago, I uncovered an odd manufacturing defect in a Maui Sail carbon boom that I bought. I should point out that it took a few months to uncover the problem because it wasn't related to product failure (breakage). I must emphasize how impressed I was with both Barry Spanier's and Phil McGain's personal efforts to completely resolve my problem. These guys were keenly focused and totally dedicated to customer satisfaction. Not only are they designing benchmark products that reflect engineering excellence, they readily stand behind their products.

Contrary to some earlier thought here, it was quite clear to me the highest caliber performance products don't have to be of questionable integrity. Still though, stuff happens, and that's where rubber meets the road and ultimately tests one's dedication and loyalities.
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Old 14th February 2008, 03:04 AM   #42
Bill
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I believe that an open forum is not the place to discuss a personal grievance with a warranty.

Neil Pryde clearly state on their website the details of their warranty. It is obvious from some comments on this thread that some people have not read that warranty.

The whole situation to me appears to have been badly handled by all concerned. The result is that both parties, customer and supplier, have probably lost out.
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Old 14th February 2008, 03:35 AM   #43
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http://rsracing.neilpryde.com/x9-ult...-warranty.html
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Old 14th February 2008, 03:49 AM   #44
Ken
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Bill,

I don't totally agree with you regarding the purpose of this forum. I think the discussion here is appropriate and all parties have had the opportunity to share their points of view. We as consumers are lucky to be privy to these discussions and issues. Hopefully, most of us have enough common sense to utilize the information in a beneficial way.

Is the Starboard forum the best place to discuss Neil Pryde's warrantee issues? Possibly not, but I would hate to see this forum get strangled like some of the others where the only topics discussed must be directly related to Starboard.

Over the last 24 years, I have purchased a ton of Neil Pryde products, and for the most part, I have been satisfied with their service and gear. Perfect? - no, but no company is. Some do try harder than others and for their efforts, they should be rewarded.

When one feels that they have been burned by a company and haven't been able to achieve satisfaction through the company, it's easy to understand why one would share their grievances on a public forum. Can it be biased and get out of hand? Sure and Starboard has the responsibility to manage it if they chose. This is their forum and they can decide what should or should not be acceptable dialogue.
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Old 14th February 2008, 04:33 AM   #45
steveC
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It's interesting to read NP's warranty on X9 products. I've never owned any NP stuff, so I've not had the opportunity to delve into the fine print associated with their products. I have to wonder though whether the warranties for different model lines are similarly worded or as restrictive. One thing was quite apparent in the X9 warranty is that the customer has to jump through a lot of hoops should a warranty issue surface, and then the situation seems quite dependent on multiple groups of folks at different levels as things step through the process. One wonders what the average time is to rule on a warranty issue, and in addition, how long on average it takes to get a replacement should the claim be deemed valid. Also, lots of grey areas where the customer can lose on subjectivity. The 18 hour framework scenario for mast failures mentioned earlier speaks loads about clearly subjective decisions.

I should point out that in the warranty situation I mentioned above in my prior post, all my contacts were made directly through the principals of Maui Sails, and that everything was handled very expeditiously and to my complete satisfaction. I didn't have to route things through the authorized retailer that I bought things through. Now I'm not saying that folks should buy Maui Sails over NP, or any other brand, but I just wanted to stress that the choice of a brand and who one works with makes a difference. Maybe I'm more happy doing business with smaller "more hands on" firms. In my opinion, tolerating a bunch of red tape and distance from the designer/manufacturer can be so frustrating. Over time, learning more on forums about the trials and tribulations of NP customers (sorry Bill), I know I'm best off steering clear of NP, despite the fact that they're offering some great looking products and that they unquestionably dominate at the pro level in many competitive segments of the sport.

Last edited by steveC; 14th February 2008 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 14th February 2008, 04:55 AM   #46
Bill
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Angry Emotions

I have no issue with Starboard running the forum or allowing this thread.

Warranty disputes are not best resolved on any open public forum.

Emotions are stirred up, the red mist comes down and rationale tends to go out the window.

I feel some of the comments on the thread are misleading and harsh.

The full facts of the case in my opinion have not been presented.

Neil Pryde production manager and the shop owner have not responded to comments on the thread nor should they.

I still believe the whole episode has been badly handled by all concerned.
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Old 14th February 2008, 05:10 AM   #47
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Please note there is a standardized warranty period of 1 year on all NeilPryde Products excluding X9 Ultra Masts shipped Ex Factory from 2007 see:

http://www.neilpryde.com/information...9-ultra-m.html

Also, please note variance in limitations based on jurisdiction. Remember, this is a general policy and as always the distributor's job is to convey the exception, where applicable, in support of the dealer and/or end user.
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Old 14th February 2008, 04:37 PM   #48
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As I study law, just for you to know: the directive 44/1999 of European Union provides there's a window of two years from delivery of a consumer product during which the consumer may claim that the product was defective.
That means also that if a product was purchased with an undetectable defect but that defect became apparent after a while, then the consumer would have a claim against the seller under EU Directive 1999/44 to repair the defect.
It "works" of course even if the defect in the product (which must be fit for their intended purposes) has not have been apparent at the time the consumer made the purchase.
If the consumer makes a claim within six months of delivery of the product that the product was defective at delivery, the burden is on the seller to prove that the product was not defective at the time of sale. From six to twenty-four months it is the consumerís obligation to prove that the defect in the product existed at the time the goods were delivered to the consumer.

Care on this because many wsurfers are lawyers and as lawyers with some spare time are used to do in troubled cases, it's just matter of time I think..
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Old 14th February 2008, 06:06 PM   #49
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AlexWind,

The EU Directive is just that, A directive. Not all EU members have taken it on board (excuse the pun). In the UK the sale of goods act is in force and in that there is no mention of two years warranty though for most goods an expectation of 1 year is made. Even after the warranty period if you can prove that a manufacturing defect was the problem then you can expect recompense. After the initial warranty period in many cases the waranty owner can reduce the recompense for general wear and tear leaving the consumer with nothing. Many choose not to do this however and will make a good will gesture.

It's even harder in some cases as the manufacturer will sell on the warranty to the distributor or even the dealer. If you buy some goods over here you make the contract with your dealer. Unfortunately everyone in the line tries to pass the buck leaving the consumer flailing in the dark. I've experienced this myself both with large companies and small.

I have to say that the one warranty claim I made with Starboard (Tushingham, UK distributors) was dealt with very quickly and involved no effort on my part. Customer service counts for a lot. Get it wrong and the consumer will never buy that brand again. If NP are getting it wrong it's in their interests to get things right or they will eventually loose their customer base.
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Old 14th February 2008, 06:40 PM   #50
nunu
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Default NP Warranty

So i'am french, don't take care of my english.

I sail with NP products (RS 4 - RS6 ...). I had bad experience with Nautix Masts & NP masts on the RS4&RS6 9m≤. (3 Nautix Masts & 2 X9U broken & ; 1 X6 nearly broken).
The warranty has worked for 2 Nautix masts (the third were out of warranty) and all the NP masts were replaced under warranties (1 year).

The NP Masts were made in italy. The last mast (X9U), that is heavier (but it doesn't matter) is made in china and is still not broken ( )

That types of troubles are very a shame because in term of performance sails are very good.
Circle of hoisting seems to much important, and made to much constraints to the masts ?!

regards
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