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Old 19th February 2008, 01:39 AM   #31
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The HGA doesn't even have a pot to piss in, let alone the influence to introduce a bill into the State Legislature. Why is anyone even bothering with discussing the HGA?
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Old 19th February 2008, 02:38 AM   #32
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Unhappy HGA Aristocracy

"The HGA doesn't even have a pot to piss in, let alone the influence to introduce a bill into the State Legislature. Why is anyone even bothering with discussing the HGA?"

Not true. Lot of those punks have folks dialed in with the "old boy" network. Parents, relatives that work in government. I've heard it from the source.
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Old 19th February 2008, 02:41 AM   #33
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Poster 30 raises a pertinent point.

While it's not my intent to rifle against kiters here, it's important to note the fact that many folks don't necessarily understand the differences between windsurfing and kiting. I know that seems hard to believe, but I often run into normal folks passing by on their stroll at the beach, and from their questions it has become quite apparent that many readily confuse the two sports. Much of this is because it might be the first time they have seen the two sports and the equipment, and they're so removed that it's hard for them to piece together the clear differences. Of course, many do understand the differences, but what worries me are those that don't.

If the root of the proposed ordinance was principally due to problems with kiting activities and related problems, one wonders why windsurfing has been thrown in the mix. Windsurfing has been around for many years, and I think that there have been few, if any, problems with the average citizen. The only rub might be with surfers, not because of accidents, but due to the issue of sharing the waves. But still, at least in my opinion, windsurfing and surfing have been able to coexist reasonably well over the years.

However, with kiting, I noted that the significant potential for conflict with the surfers, as the total area in the surf that a kiter can cover and dominate is much much greater. I think that many kiters understand the narrow line they're walking with surfers, but quite possibly some don't. Really, all it takes is one or two bad apples to spoil everything.

Overall, I have to agree with Poster 30 regarding the importance of maintaining the differences between windsurfing and kiting, especially with respect to the perception of normal folks.
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Old 19th February 2008, 02:55 AM   #34
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Exclamation You really think so, steveC??

That people confuse kitesurfing and windsurfing? You really don't give the average Joe a lot of credit. Kitesurfing is a KITE and windsurfing is a sail. Not much confusion.

All watermen need to unify as someone else suggested. What if one day, SURFERS become the scapegoat of the day. They'll come crying to us and vice versa. We need a meeting with kitesurfers, surfers (yes, even HGA), jetskiers in one quorom to voice our single right to the ocean.

How bout it?
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Old 19th February 2008, 03:09 AM   #35
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Exclamation another arm of a machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
"The HGA doesn't even have a pot to piss in, let alone the influence to introduce a bill into the State Legislature. Why is anyone even bothering with discussing the HGA?"

Not true. Lot of those punks have folks dialed in with the "old boy" network. Parents, relatives that work in government. I've heard it from the source.
i believe it and the the HGA becomes the disapproving disilluisoned youth factor , with whom, the cops turn a blind eye to,
while daddy and mom work the politic angle downtown.
hey hwat happened to that longtime windsurfer who got baseball bat beaten by youths near paia??
anyone?
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Old 19th February 2008, 04:27 AM   #36
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BobD,

Well, I did say "you know it seems hard believe...". I wasn't at all being judgmental in my comments, its just a common fact in my experiences. Awfully strange thinking about it, but it's quite true. I always try to clarify the differences to others when they ask, because I'm proud to be a windsurfer. And, when it comes to kitesurfing, I always voice a positive viewpoint to the folks asking. Actually, many folks are suitably impressed with the sport of kiting, as the elevated moving kites offer a colorful spectacle of sorts. Also, the kiteboards kick up quite a bit of spray, and that probably catches folks eyes, amoungst other things too.

Yet overall, I don't know if I religiously buy into taking in the responsibly for the actions "of someonelse's kid" concept. Like I said earlier, "all it takes is one or two bad apples to spoil everything".

Needless to say, I look to the kiting community to control the activities of their group. I sail a lot with kiters (really I'm the true minority in the mix), and I have to expect them to adhere to reasonable protocol. Frankly, virtually all kiters at my spots are meeting my expectations, so that's a real positive.

In parting, I would add that I was a completely dedicated surfer 22 years before started windsurfing in 1985, so the beach has been an integral part of my life since my early teens. Also, I must say, I hate the idea of restrictive rules at the beach. Truly, I wish for less rules and more honest fun. Nobody wants a strong police presense and undue tension, and I would hope that the beach doesn't become a war zone of sorts.
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Old 19th February 2008, 06:54 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobD View Post
That people confuse kitesurfing and windsurfing? You really don't give the average Joe a lot of credit.
Bobd, believe it. It's you who are giving the average Joe TOO MUCH credit. And the average Jane. They really do NOT have ANY idea how windsurfing is different from kitesurfing. A kite? a sail? it's just that bright-colored thing moving along on the water. That's all it is, to the average citizen. You've lost sight of the true fringe nature of these sports.

Now for my real beef with you. You really want to get lumped in with jetskiers? You really want be relegated to 3,000 feet away from anything - as they rightfully should be, because they are noisy, and they stink, and there is no good reason to spread noise and stench and pollution and out-of-control mechanized metal to any places where it does not already exist yet, as they do? Wow. That's some impressively misguided aspiration for solidarity there, brah. Why don't you go lump yourself in with the Superferry while you're at it, if you really want to demand your untrammeled right to waterborne travesty. You'll not see me in that "quorom" of yours.
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Old 19th February 2008, 01:59 PM   #38
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Awww man... you had to bring up the superferry!! Ugh!!

Love da ferry, brah! Have taken my kit to Kailua three times now on the ferry in my van, and had a blast.

Although I have to agree that our "quorum" shouldn't really include any "gas" powered craft, nature powered craft only, wether its wind or waves.

And, sorry, criminals (HGA) are not invited. And yes, the nice kids from the HGA were the group that beat (Web Peddrick I believe) with bats to an inch of his life. He is lucky to be alive. So, sorry, any comments that include HGA, foh getta bou dit! And yes, the HGA has roots through family and friends in all levels of government from cops to politions. Roots run deep in Hawaii. I have seen a kid get let go after the cops arrived to a fight because his uncle was on the force, and they just said, "straighten up brah or I will tell yer uncle".

When HGA started it was a noble cause. Jan Roberson's (from the Surfrider Foundation) son (Kaleo) founded the HGA many years back to support young and up and comming surfers. The group went bad pretty quick and Kaleo either couldnt control them or was part of the problem and that is a major part of the debate. The fact is, they have lost respect in the surf community here and are nothing more than a gang of theives.
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Old 19th February 2008, 05:09 PM   #39
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"You really want be relegated to 3,000 feet away from anything - as they rightfully should be, because they are noisy, and they stink, and there is no good reason to spread noise and stench and pollution and out-of-control mechanized metal to any places where it does not already exist yet, as they do?"

Excellent.
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Old 19th February 2008, 07:01 PM   #40
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Default polltuion as an issue

thanks for the info on the HKA , and stuff...

the superferry issues ughh I agree , while pile that into stuff?? but when it comes to noisy craft like jet skiis and stinky pollution one opens up a big can o worms.
jet aircraft are a big noisy polluter just like a jetski, i bet per ton of cargo the ferry pollutes much less!!!
and the noise northshore from jets ughhh jet skiis are no comparison !! superferry no noise.

BUT whale wise its a no brainer...aircraft have little impact ( as far as we know ) with ceteaceans, jet skiis probaly blow their ears out superferrry just outright poses an impact and noise threat but so do cargo vessels. matson line ....ah why did i raise this issue!!

but hey sailboard wakes dont leave marks...
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