Old 26th February 2008, 04:59 AM   #11
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Starting all over again with a design competion is too disruptive. That process is too long.

And there was panic in 2005, 2006 as too when how the gear got out.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2008, 05:08 AM   #12
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yeah it needs to a existing class or better still small changes to the existing class

and the changes could be staggered

AUGUST 2008
offer a the choice of a powerful fin and then

FEBRUARY 2009
phase out old fin and offer new centerboard

AUGUST 2009
phase out old centreboard introduce mark 2 hull

now there is no production crisis
and the consumer can staggered their costs
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2008, 06:08 AM   #13
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In my opinion, for Olympic racing, its hard to beat a good longboard. The Mistral One design package is outdated for sure. But the performance of the latest raceboards such as the Exocet Warp-X and Starboards Phantom matched with a modern 2 or 3 cam 9.5 sail over the 0-30k wind range is hard to beat. These boards are tactical, fast and plane up in surprisingly little wind(not far behind a formula)
Most of all they have a real fun factor
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2008, 06:52 AM   #14
James
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 236
Default

I notice a lot of competitors in the raceboard worlds used the RSX rig and usually beat the RSX, even though it was windy enough for the RSX to plane.

So maybe the rig could be preserved but the board changed to a longboard, as suggested by Poster #13.

Personally, I would have a tough time holding down a 9.5 on a longboard in 25 knots, but it might be fun for an Olympic athlete.
James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2008, 12:23 PM   #15
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Actually James
I like the length of the RSX as it fits inside the TOYOTA Hiace

even though its the length of the mistral which makes it so quick when displacing
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2008, 12:34 PM   #16
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ah the good old days of mistral sailing
it was great
extremely physical - heaps of pumping required - true athletes
super fast downwind in very strong wind with the narrow tail and small fin

but

the rsx is more technical with regards to tuning and the added complexity of choosing when to plane upwind which the mistral didn't have.

anyway thats not what this tread is about
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2008, 04:00 AM   #17
Ken
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas USA
Posts: 799
Default

My earlier comments, justifying why formula should be considered for the Olympic board demonstrated my limited knowledge about Olympic class sailing.

I assume that for the RSX class, there is only on sail and one fin allowed. That certainly limits the wind range for the board and would not make a 12 m sail a good choice for light wind since it wouldn't work in 20 knots for most racers. Same issue with an 80cm fin.

This begs the question - why not two sails and two fins? Other sailing classes have multiple sails (main, jib, spinnaker) and they can choose to use one, two or three depending on the wind speed and point of sail. I guess they can also reef the main sail in strong winds, which in effect is like rigging a smaller sail. Why not give the windsurfers the same option?

Easier said than done - politics, etc.

Just some thoughts.
Ken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2008, 06:19 AM   #18
C249
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The other Olympic classes can get around the course with the sails they have on board, without reefing or changing. They don't have to go back to the beach to change sails as the wind changes. I think most only allow one set of sails to be used each regatta, just like the RSX does.

You'll never find a 470 or Tornado, for example, racing under mainsail alone, and I've never seen them go downwind without a spinnaker up unless something has gone very wrong. A 49er is actually extremely difficult to get downwind in a breeze without a spinnaker up so they don't have much of a choice. Not a single Olympic class has changed to smaller sails in strong winds since about 1965.

Changing sails IS easier said than done, and it's not politics. Courses are normally set well offshore, away from the land effects to allow fairer racing. Race committees are under pressure to get races completed. Event sites are often crowded.

To stop the racing while the windsurfers decide to go in and change sails can mean holding up the racing for the vast majority of the sailors (those on boats) and then a huge muddle on shore. I've hit the beach on an Olympic class regatta on a board at the same time as 70 or so Lasers wanted to get up the ramp; getting up onto the beach, finding space to change sails and then going against the flow would have been very hard.

And what does the RC do when conditions change? If sailor X has a physique and skills that allow him or her to use a big sail across all conditions, why should they have to sit and wait because person Y, say a lightweight light-air sailor who cannot handle a big sail in big winds, goes in to change gear?

If the wind has gone from 13 knots to a perfect 20 knots, does the RC wait until the last lightweights struggle across the finish line in a heat, then allow those sailors to struggle back to the beach, then wait while they re-rig, then wait for the last one to get back out to the start? Or do sailors just gamble that they will be able to go back in and change rigs before the next start? Won't the sailors with a RIB and pit crew have a huge advantage?

Olympic classes have been pretty popular at times - I can remember in Division 2 days going from the worlds of the most popular class of the time (basically F42 Raceboard/slalom) to a Div 2 worlds and being amazed at how big and professional the Olympic class worlds were. Getting Olympic status can really hurt the numbers of a class, but the Olympic class worlds in boards are normally bigger than the FW worlds in terms of entrants and nations.

I think if you check the actual numbers around the world, you'll find that those who want to race in light winds are NOT limited in numbers, compared to FW. In many major sailing countries, the "light wind" boards are at least as popular. This isn't attacking FW, just pointing out that it doesn't seem to be the vast majority of racers as sometimes implied.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2008, 08:30 PM   #19
Ken
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas USA
Posts: 799
Default

C249,

Thanks for the lesson in Olympic class sailing. Valid points and since I have never been on the beach at an Olympics, it's hard to imagine how it all works. I can see why windsurfing would not get special treatment.

Actually, I am not opposed to longboards being the Olympic class board. I would prefer it to the RSX and think that a longboard would do more to promote windsurfing and racing throughout the world than the RSX. The concept of the RSX is good, but from what I have read and seen, I don't think it does what everyone really hoped for.

I raced longboards for 19 years before moving to Formula. The down side of the longboard for me was that I only got on it to race. Free sailing wasn't much fun. Then when Formula came along, I now spend 70% of my free sailing time on the Formula board because it is so much fun if I have at least 10 knots of wind.

Olympic class worlds will always bring in a good number of racers because the opportunity to race together is pretty limited. I would guess that 25% or more of the RSX owners world wide probably go to the worlds, since so many are Olympic hopefuls. At the formula worlds, probably 98% of the Formula sailors don't go because they have plenty of local racing opportunities and stand nothing to gain by traveling around the world.

All of this is speculation and I have no facts to support my comments, just my estimation of how it probably plays out. I just like the debate.
Ken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2008, 05:11 AM   #20
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post

-Here's another thing: I heard from an RS:X rider who said the Bic Hybrid was a lot nicer than the RS:X both in the breeze and in daggerboard mode. Since that's already an existing class I wonder if they'll vy for 2012 Olympic status.
http://www.jimbodouglass.blogspot.com
I'd like to hear a bit more about that Bic. I've noticed it did well racing in France against all other hybrids, despite lower tech construction than the RSX. There again it seems anything picked for Olympic use has to be reinforced for serious pumping use (abuse?) so would end up too porky for the rest of us. Whcih probably also explains why although the RSX rig seem to be good aerodynamically it's sure heavy. Many 10.5's feel lighter.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 01:03 PM.