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Old 15th March 2012, 04:49 PM   #11
costap
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Hi Jean-Marc,

That's very useful information! Many thanks!

Cheers!

Pedro
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Old 15th March 2012, 05:20 PM   #12
mcross19
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Hi Joe, I can easily get planing in 8-9 knots of wind using my 147 and 11m overdrive with just a couple of pumps although I am using a 62cm fin and I do weigh 89Kgs.

I think that buying second hand you could get yourself a big sail mast and boom for around $1500 and it should still be in good condition for that sort of money.
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Old 15th March 2012, 07:29 PM   #13
Jean-Marc
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Another video showing how to foil ride the Serenity to reach her topping speed of ~12 knots in about 7 knots of wind gusts :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfARJ6PswVM

Cheers !

JM
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Old 16th March 2012, 12:15 AM   #14
joe_windsurfer
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you light weights make me sick

at 100+ kilos i would need a sheet of plywood to try and plane in 6 knots :-)
i am happy to get going with my MS TR-4 10-oh and Fanatic Cat longboard in 8 knots
planing does not happen until after 10 or 12 knots and then i can already go to the MS-2 8-oh.
By that time you lightweights are FLYING !!

i gotta lose weight !!!

and ...mcross you confirm what i said - if a used sail, mast, etc cost $1500 , with the new board - we are over $3000
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2006 AHD type-F FF 160/79cm, 2002 BIC Techno Formula, 2000 Fanatic BEE 124 LTD + Mistral Equipe I LCS
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Last edited by joe_windsurfer; 16th March 2012 at 11:46 PM. Reason: xxx
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Old 16th March 2012, 10:53 AM   #15
Jean-Marc
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Joe,

I just discover that table made by pfaffi:

http://www.pfaffi.at/pfaffi_fins/F1_...ition=download

2 points are very interesting to note in order to be able to start and sustain the planing as of 7 knots:

1) for a light weight rider of 65 kg, a fin lenght of 53 cm should suffice according to his theory. That is a correct estimation because what I've found to be a good fin lenght by trial and error is that I have used in the past a 54 cm fin with a 10.6 m2 sail (a 48 cm fin was too small for low wind range).

2) Pfaffi used a Formula HWR board, a 70 cm fin and a Severne Reflex 12 m2 sail to be able to start and sustain the planing as of 7 knots. He weights 92 kg.
If his theory holds true and according to his table, you should be able to do the same with a 75 cm fin for your 100 kg body weight.

However, the important point is that your Fanatic mega cat cannot hold a 75 cm fin. I'm sure that the new Formula 167 Wide can hold a 75 cm fin.

Cheers !

JM
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Old 16th March 2012, 11:47 PM   #16
joe_windsurfer
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merci Jean-Marc

does a 70 cm carbon centreboard count as a long fin ?
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2006 AHD type-F FF 160/79cm, 2002 BIC Techno Formula, 2000 Fanatic BEE 124 LTD + Mistral Equipe I LCS
HSM Fire 6.3, Gaastra Flow 3x 7.0, TR-6 8.4, TR4 10.0

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Old 17th March 2012, 03:06 AM   #17
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Jean-Marc,

I think the comparison is quite interesting.

Have you tried too a 380 or 377 raceboard? I understand it would require maybe 1 or 2 kts more that the Formula. I guess it would be controllable up to 15 kts similar to the HS05? Does this make sense?
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Old 17th March 2012, 08:48 PM   #18
Jean-Marc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_windsurfer View Post
merci Jean-Marc

does a 70 cm carbon centreboard count as a long fin ?
I don't think so. I surmised that Pfaffi's table relates to planing in low wind with a with a wide planing board à la Formula and what fin lenght can achieve that goal according to what body weight. His table is found for the developpement of his Formula fins.

I don't think his calculations are valid for a narrow raceboard. I suggest you ask him directly by email: pfaffi@pfaffi.at

Cheers !

JM
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Old 17th March 2012, 09:35 PM   #19
Jean-Marc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboarder View Post
Jean-Marc,

I think the comparison is quite interesting.

Have you tried too a 380 or 377 raceboard?
Yes, I tried a Phantom 380 carbon with a North S-Type 9.5 m2 sail in 2-7 knots winds. I was not able to start the planing as of 7 knots with that gear whereas I have no difficulties to achieve that with my HS105 + 55 cm fin + 11 m2 sail. I did not tried the Phantom 380 + 11 m2 sail yet, sorry. However, I'm able to start and sustain the planing as of 7 knots with a narrow board such as an Ace 309 + 54 cm fin + NP RX2 10.6 sail (all with active pumping).
So for my 65 kg light weight, a Formula or an Ultrasonic is basically useless because any board wider than 70 cm is plenty enough for my light weight to achieve my goal. Sure I can plane earlier at 6 knots with a Formula but the upper wind range is becoming too limited for my light weight with say an 8.2 m2 sail in 10-15 knots wind range, so it's not worth the investment. So far, my 10 years-old HS105 has been the best board for the 7-20 knots wind range and it will be replaced by an iSonic 117 wide or iSonic 128 in the future, depending on which wind range I want to emphasize the most with a 3 or 2 sails quiver, respectively.

Quote:
I understand it would require maybe 1 or 2 kts more that the Formula. I guess it would be controllable up to 15 kts similar to the HS05? Does this make sense?
Again, I did not tried the Phantom 380 + 11 m2 sail yet, so I cannot comment on the lower/upper wind range for my 65 kg body weight. What is for sure is that the 75 kg owner of the Phantom 380 + 9.5 sail combo is planing much later than me on HS105 + 11 m2, something around 9/10 knots. However, he's way faster when gliding below 7 knots of wind while I'm struggling to keep schlogging like a slime.

My friend did not want to have 2 boards like me to cover the wind range 2-15 knots, so he chooses the Phantom + 9.5 and he's very happy with that. Below 2 knots, he even uses his Phantom as a SUP. Above 15 knots, he jumps on a medium slalom board + 7.8 m2 sail.

Another friend has a Serenity + 8.4 m2 sail and he used that combo for 2-12 knots wind range. He recently bought a Phantom because he wanted to be able to ride again in planing mode, which was strongly missing on his Serenity. He's very happy with his choice now on the Phantom.

In summ, there is no unique choice. All are valid options, depending on what you want to do and on where do you accept to make compromises.
- If you want a board to do both gliding and planing, get a Phantom.
- If you want only earliest planing, get a Formula or an Ultrasonic.
- If you want the ultimate performance in both gliding/planing world, get a Serenity and a wide planing board with a big sail.

Cheers !

JM
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Old 17th March 2012, 09:52 PM   #20
Jean-Marc
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Sailboarder,

Here is an old post from Rémi making comparison between a Serenity, a Phantom Race or an Apollo, all rigged with an 11.0 m2 sail.

http://www.star-board.com/forum/arch...hp/t-2306.html

Results in speed ranking :

"Remi
5th August 2007, 09:48 PM

Hi Jean-Marc,

In speed only :

In 5 knots : Serenity > Phantom Race > Apollo
In 7 knots : Apollo > Serenity > Phantom Race
In 10 Knots : Apollo > Phantom Race > Serenity

All the best"

Hope this helps to answer your question about Phantom/Formula earliest planing threshold with a big sail.

Cheers !

JM

Last edited by Jean-Marc; 17th March 2012 at 09:56 PM.
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