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Old 15th March 2012, 09:42 PM   #21
Jean-Marc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Per View Post

Sooo.. What about Serenity in 5 to 10 knots against a sailboat??

;-)
Per
Serenity + 11 m2 sail will win upwind and reaching against a Toucan sailboat which is still a strong contender when match-racing in light wind on our swiss lakes (http://www.skippers.tv/dossiers/une-...-match-racing/).

However, the Serenity had no chance against a Psaros 40 sailboat called "Syz & Co" (https://www.syzgroup.com/about-syz-a...s-40/index.htm).

Serenity + 11 m2 is as fast as a Hobbie Cat 18 in 3-7 knots of wind. Above than 7/8 knots of wind, her board speed is topping out at 12-13 knots, so the Serenity can no longer accelerate further and further and the Hobbie will finally catch her and pass.

A Bladerider when foil-flying as of 4-5 knots of wind is faster than the Serenity but when not foil-flying, the Serenity is way faster. D35, M2 or even a Ventilo cat are all faster than Serenity.

BTW, the Phantom 380/Lechner/Fanatic Mega Cat/AHD 380/F2 Lightning Race/etc... are all slower than the Serenity in 2-7 knots of wind. Above 7 knots, the Phantom 380 can transition from the gliding to the planing mode and is therefore faster than the Serenity. Same with a Formula as of 6/7 knots of wind when blasting at planing mode.

If I was to invest into a sailboat without buying a Serenity, a Formula and an iSonic 107 with a 11.0/8.6/7.8/6.6 m2 sail quiver, I would buy a Bladerider for fast sailing in 4/5-20 knots wind range without hesitation. I would keep the wave board + wave sail quiver for those days above 20 knots with yummi swell and wind waves, however.

Cheers !

JM

Last edited by Jean-Marc; 15th March 2012 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 17th March 2012, 10:33 AM   #22
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very nice and interesting
information, it make me very happy to know about a such tips, very cool
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Old 5th April 2012, 10:06 PM   #23
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It seems the RS D2 has most of the Serenity's light wind speed with most of the Phantoms medium wind speed. But now kite course racers are using 'mini windsurfer' style boards (but with 3 fins), I doubt they can be touched by anything , except possibly a Hydro Moth (blade rider). Partly this is because the wind at kite height is stronger than measured at the surface. At the recent Olympic trials they were reported to outperform all the multihulls & skiffs present. However I doubt they would be suitable in inland conditions i.e. with lulls.
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Old 7th April 2012, 06:33 PM   #24
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true dhat ! the mini formula with kite setup seems to be the next incarnation of light air speed.

the exocet d-2 looks very promising but is a very big board

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Old 9th April 2012, 09:12 PM   #25
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It's been a couple of years since I have seen the "course racing" kites racing, but on the same course, the formula boards were faster. A couple of the best kiters were very quick, but not quite up to the formula boards. Winds were in the 18-22 knot range.
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Old 9th April 2012, 10:19 PM   #26
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I don't doubt it Ken but a lot has changed in two years Now formula has evolved another minor iteration but the kiteboards have transformed.-with 3 fins they no longer have to constantly 'edge' & so look more fun to sail (actually the stance looks pretty WS like, check Youtube). Still in the stronger winds it could still be close, but the discussion concerned light airs. In 6-8 knots measured by the Olympic trial officials the kiteboards hit 20 knots...... Their other big advantage is that downwind (when una rigged craft are always underpowered if in control upwind) they have the possibility to spin the kite in a loop thus using the kite velocity to increase power.
Still I fancy a RS D2 or maybe a Bat Wing for inland use, but have to admit the Hydro Moths and Kites are now the most 'rad' light wind performance,
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Old 10th April 2012, 11:05 AM   #27
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I've seen kites fall down in 6-8 knots (surface) conditions, during the lulls (and they are always there).
Me too, I was not planing all the time with my former Formula board in these conditions, but at least I did not have to swim.
According to me, 6-8 knots are perfect long board/sail boat/cat conditions, i.e. gliders with a lot of volume.

I haven't seen the new kite boards you are talking about.
Do they have enough volume to carry a person ?
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Last edited by BelSkorpio; 10th April 2012 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 11th April 2012, 03:48 PM   #28
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When I last was racing with the kites, they all had the three fins, but they were all very interested in the formula boards and their fins. The one significant thing that I noticed in the strong winds (25 knots and 4' chop) is that the kites could luff their rigs high above and de-power to stay in control while the formula sailors just had to hang on and hope they didn't blow up. I did on one race and gave up for the day.

The potential for kites to be faster (if they aren't already) than formula boards is high if in the right conditions.
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Old 12th April 2012, 05:26 AM   #29
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With regards to the sailboat vs sailboard down wind. Interestingly some of the top level dingy sailors and definitely some of the A-Class cat sailors ( fastest of the single handed cats) are now reaching on the square run. It is a very difficult thing to get right as the angles ( distance to sail) vs speed are critical. A sailboard when using this technique would be devastating. A skilled laser sailor is going to out point the sailboard but the extra speed the board can get when sailing just a few points lower is going to really hurt the laser rounding upwind mark. My dingy sailing days are well and truly over.
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Old 8th May 2012, 10:50 PM   #30
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Great vidoe, search
Kite vs Moth vs 49er
on yuoutube.
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