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Old 11th April 2012, 02:48 PM   #31
Ken
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When I last was racing with the kites, they all had the three fins, but they were all very interested in the formula boards and their fins. The one significant thing that I noticed in the strong winds (25 knots and 4' chop) is that the kites could luff their rigs high above and de-power to stay in control while the formula sailors just had to hang on and hope they didn't blow up. I did on one race and gave up for the day.

The potential for kites to be faster (if they aren't already) than formula boards is high if in the right conditions.
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Old 12th April 2012, 04:26 AM   #32
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With regards to the sailboat vs sailboard down wind. Interestingly some of the top level dingy sailors and definitely some of the A-Class cat sailors ( fastest of the single handed cats) are now reaching on the square run. It is a very difficult thing to get right as the angles ( distance to sail) vs speed are critical. A sailboard when using this technique would be devastating. A skilled laser sailor is going to out point the sailboard but the extra speed the board can get when sailing just a few points lower is going to really hurt the laser rounding upwind mark. My dingy sailing days are well and truly over.
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Old 8th May 2012, 09:50 PM   #33
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Great vidoe, search
Kite vs Moth vs 49er
on yuoutube.
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Old 10th May 2012, 12:44 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAW View Post
With regards to the sailboat vs sailboard down wind. Interestingly some of the top level dingy sailors and definitely some of the A-Class cat sailors ( fastest of the single handed cats) are now reaching on the square run. It is a very difficult thing to get right as the angles ( distance to sail) vs speed are critical. A sailboard when using this technique would be devastating. A skilled laser sailor is going to out point the sailboard but the extra speed the board can get when sailing just a few points lower is going to really hurt the laser rounding upwind mark. My dingy sailing days are well and truly over.
Raw, the cats and fast dinghies have been doing that for about 40 years and the windsurfers have been doing that for at least 30! :-)
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:00 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Great vidoe, search
Kite vs Moth vs 49er
on yuoutube.
Very interesting to see the duel between Moth vs kiteboard racing in winds well above 5 knots :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l29gGKzmlkU

Below 5 knots of wind, this will be a different story of course with regards to the 49er outcome.

Cheers !

JM
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Old 19th May 2012, 09:39 AM   #36
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Did another match race between a Serenity and 2 sailboats lately :

Wind : 4-6 knots. Fresh water lake, no chop, swell at 5-8 cm.
Board : Serenity wood mk 1. Drake XXL 70 cm stock fin. Mast track set right in the middle.
Sail : Severne Reflex II 11.0 m2. Mast Severne Enigma 550 cm. Boom Severne Enigma 210-260 cm carbon. Luff set at 561 cm, boom set at 252 cm. Sail is trimmed very deep, draft kept forward with a tight leech, monofilm barely touching the boom's arms up to the harness lines.

GPS readings showed that I was able to point upwind at a 45 angle. Speed upwind was around 6-7 knots.

So, first match racing with the same upwind angle as a Toucan sailboat (and the helmsman was very good), I managed to catch up from behind and pass the sailboat after a 10 min upwind battle because I had a bit better speed upwind than her. I can point a bit higher than the Toucan but then my speed decreased quite a bit at 5-6 knots, similar to that of the Toucan. So I knew my setup was competitive.

Second match racing against a Psaros 33. That racing sailboat is a brand new prototype (April 2012), with canting keel and self-aligning daggerboard, high-modulus carbon mast, a full battened square top kevlar main sail, a light-air designed code 0 jib, total sail area of 87 m2 for just 1950 kg total weight (see specs : http://www.sebschmidt.ch/portfolio/0...33_english.pdf). Crew of 5. I sailed upwind and behind her, aligned myself with the same angle upwind and tried to follow. No chance. First, she points 10 higher upwind than me. Second, she was faster, maybe 9-10 knots whereas I was speeding at 7-8 knots at that time. After 20 seconds of match racing, I was done: just impossible to follow.

So, my point of view is that sailing the Serenity + 11 m2 sail in very light wind (2 Bft) can be highly challenging and rewarding against top-class racing sailboats. Costs are 50x less expensive than a Psaros 33 and all the kit can fit on a car/minivan/van's roof top...

Cheers !

JM

Last edited by Jean-Marc; 19th May 2012 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 1st June 2012, 08:54 PM   #37
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Kite report up on isaf.

6-9 knots wind. 15 knots on the beat. 23 knots run; 26 knots reach. Gulp.

12-15 knot Formula should give 'em a race though.
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Old 3rd June 2012, 03:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Kite report up on isaf.

6-9 knots wind. 15 knots on the beat. 23 knots run; 26 knots reach. Gulp.

12-15 knot Formula should give 'em a race though.
Formula in it's current evolutions stage shines way before 12 knots...
What you got is a distorted kite propoganda... Plus, current race kites are a custom/multi fin creations, allow formula boards out of it's class limitions fin/weight and put a top guys
on it, kites would loose so quick...
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Old 4th June 2012, 07:11 AM   #39
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26 knots reaching with a kite in only 6-9 knots wind ? 3-4x the wind speed ? That's pure BS all the way.

Reality check is that nobody is kiting in such low wind except 1 guy with a Speed 3 Flysurfer 22 m2 kite and a raceboard with 4 big fins on my home lake. Truth is that he barely exceeds 2x the wind speed, i.e., 12 knots kite speed in 6 knots wind. That's exactly what I do on Serenity + 11 m2 sail BTW...

Should the wind drop below 5 knots, the kite is swimming while I'm still flying full speed as described above. Should the wind drop down to 0, I can still pump the big sail and reach a top speed of 5-6 knots with the Serenity while the kite is still swimming and calling for the rescue boat.

Time to get to real hard facts and stop the kite fantasy...

Cheers !

JM
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Old 4th June 2012, 11:21 AM   #40
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Absolutely agree, being the lucky and jealous owner of a Serenity MKII down here in Venice, Italy. Best board I've ever choosen and bought (and I currently own 10 boards of various types, 5 in Venice and 5 outside).
BTW in my home spot SE of Venice airport kites are forbidden, as in many other places.
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