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Old 15th July 2013, 10:28 PM   #11
jw xxx
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i find it odd that you speak about REALLY large sails and slalom in the same discussion
9.6 too small ?? some people doe not wanna go bigger !!

the US 147 is aimed at ??
thought early planing was the primal goal - with less of a Formula feel
speed was just an added benefit - or so i thought
speed at the cost of early planing does NOT sound like a good plan to me

and yes - there is quite a dilemma over JP SLW vs SB US
for me speed is less of an issue and length is important as well for tacking
many speed "freaks" definitely prefer the US 147 and i can understand that
less early planing just takes this board OFF my short liste :-(
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Old 15th July 2013, 11:55 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by BelSkorpio View Post
Hi Unregistered,

I understand that you're comparing between the 2013 version and the previous version, but regardless of this I think that your 9.6 is rather small for your weight in marginal conditions.
I'm 87kg and I use a 10.9 with a 64cm fin in these marginal conditions. It still makes a difference of a few knots earlier planing c/w my 8.8 sail. I compare my 8.8 with your 9.6 regarding our weight difference.
My 8.8 starts planing from +/- 11-12 knots while the 10.9 starts from 8 knots, almost no pumping.

With my 10.9 in marginal conditions, I also put my mastfoot all the way back. For me it makes a considerable difference.

Anyhow, I also heard from some friends that the JP SLW starts planing a bit earlier at the expense of the "slalom feeling". It's like you said, you can't have it all in 1 package.

Well I guess sail size really depends on your level of skill/sailing? With my weight and sail I can plane earlier than lighter people using sails up to 10.7 also on Ultrasonics.
Most current(2013) 9.6 race sails are built for heavy sailors over 90kg and min PWA wind speeds(8knots)........try one.
Many 11m formula sails are designed for medium to strong wind.

I certainly don't need 11-12 knots, nor a 64cm fin to plane, with my 9.6 on a super light wind board.

I have owned several of them and sailed them all, each has it's plus points and negative points, they are all good and transform light wind sailing.

So in my opinion, the earliest planning(at min wind) is the Exocet RS7 close behind is JP SLW(Gold), then the Ultrasonic 2011/2012 followed by the Ultrasonic 2013 and the Falcon 152 close together. For top speed, the Exocet RS7 followed by the Ultrasonic 2013/Falcon152, Ultrasonic 2011/2012 followed by the JP SLW.
For control and ease of sailing in rough seas, Ultrasonic 2103/Falcon 152, Ultrasonic 2011/2012, followed by the JP SLW and then the most technical the RS7

If I wanted to use a big heavy 10.7/11m, I would have kept my formula board which does without question planes a touch earlier in min wind than any of these boards.
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Old 16th July 2013, 12:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw xxx View Post
i find it odd that you speak about REALLY large sails and slalom in the same discussion
9.6 too small ?? some people doe not wanna go bigger !!

the US 147 is aimed at ??
thought early planing was the primal goal - with less of a Formula feel
speed was just an added benefit - or so i thought
speed at the cost of early planing does NOT sound like a good plan to me

and yes - there is quite a dilemma over JP SLW vs SB US
for me speed is less of an issue and length is important as well for tacking
many speed "freaks" definitely prefer the US 147 and i can understand that
less early planing just takes this board OFF my short liste :-(
JW xxx, to try to answer your question, it really depends on the conditions you sail in. If its flat water, inland and want the earliest planning, take the Exocet RS7 or the JP SLW. If you happen to have rough sea conditions but light wind, both the Ultrasonics and Falcon 152 are the easiest to sail. If the wind was constant and you had enough power, then both these boards plane easily and early, so to put it into context, its just at the very threshold of planing that you need to work a bit harder. Technique such as pumping down a swell etc can make the difference.

The Ultrasonic is longer than the SLW, but the SLW is the easiest to tack of all the boards, it feels much bigger than any of the others and perhaps aimed more towards the recreational/less skilled sailor. But it is still a pretty potent light wind board that covers most conditions pretty well.
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Old 16th July 2013, 12:24 AM   #14
Waterloo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered

I have owned several of them and sailed them all, each has it's plus points and negative points, they are all good and transform light wind sailing.

So in my opinion, the earliest planning(at min wind) is the Exocet RS7....
Given it is relatively shorter compared to the others does the early planing of the RS7 require a fair bit of pumping, and what sort of fin size compared to the others?

Cheers
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Old 16th July 2013, 03:00 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Waterloo View Post
Given it is relatively shorter compared to the others does the early planing of the RS7 require a fair bit of pumping, and what sort of fin size compared to the others?

Cheers
No, I find the RS7 needs less pumping, it releases very quickly onto the fin after a couple of pumps. Fin size is the same as what I have used on the others, typical 57/58cm in 9.6 weather. Tail is wider than the Ultrasonic, narrower than the SLW and Falcon 152
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Old 16th July 2013, 10:14 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
The Ultrasonic is longer than the SLW, but the SLW is the easiest to tack of all the boards, it feels much bigger than any of the others and perhaps aimed more towards the recreational/less skilled sailor. But it is still a pretty potent light wind board that covers most conditions pretty well.
and you mentioned the Exocet RS7 ....

there is another version of the SLW which is the SLW92 and it is 250 cm long. It is to be just as fast, as early a planer and as you mention - just as user friendly

the RS7 is a board i hear little about and cannot find it listed in US not Canada
glad you have shared info on it !!!!!
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Old 16th July 2013, 12:43 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
and you mentioned the Exocet RS7 ....

there is another version of the SLW which is the SLW92 and it is 250 cm long. It is to be just as fast, as early a planer and as you mention - just as user friendly

the RS7 is a board i hear little about and cannot find it listed in US not Canada
glad you have shared info on it !!!!!
No experience with the SLW92, I have read that it can be pretty fast in the right conditions. Since its positioned more towards the intermediate sailor by JP with an outline a bit like a formula, it was not what I was looking for in a super lightwind slalom board.

Maybe one day the PWA will see sense and allow these 90cm+ wide slalom boards in competition. Far less cancelled heats and sitting on the beach as they push the wind minimums lower, which can't be bad for the sponsors
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Old 16th July 2013, 02:02 PM   #18
mark h
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[QUOTE=Maybe one day the PWA will see sense and allow these 90cm+ wide slalom boards in competition. Far less cancelled heats and sitting on the beach as they push the wind minimums lower, which can't be bad for the sponsors[/QUOTE]

Good point. the extra 5cm could mean a lot more heats would get done, especially at some of the events known for light/flukey conditions. Must be gut wrenching for the pro's to sat on the beach during an event.

Could mean a whole new generation of fast 90cm slalom boards. I remember how quickly Formula developed/improved in its early days.
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Old 16th July 2013, 08:02 PM   #19
mcross19
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That was an interesting point about the 9.6m being as powerful as a formula 10.7 because this is the discussion I had with the guys at Point 7 so they have made me a 10m Custom AC1 Slalom sail which I will use on my Ultrasonic. It weighs much less than a 10.7m Formula sail due to a shorter mast and boom but it is supposed to be equally as powerful, be interersting to get it going on the water.

The one big improvement the 2013 Ultrasonic has it the rear foot strap position has been moved futher outboard giving you a much more comfy stance on the board when planning.
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Old 16th July 2013, 08:56 PM   #20
BelSkorpio
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I'm not convinced that a 9.6 is as powerful as a 10.9.
Getting onto the plane with it, yes. But pointing upwind, doubtful.
I probably plane as early with my 8.8 & 58 fin as with my 10.9 & 64 fin in marginal conditions, but then often after 1 rack + a jibe, I need to slog back to the point where I started off. Something that I hate.
In PWA slalom races, they don't have this problem too much because they go slightly downwind all the time.

On the other hand, I you take a sail that has a lot of low-end power (typically a light wind 2-cambered free race sail) you can quickly get overpowered when suddenly the wind picks up. I had this often with my 9.5 freerace sail which I sold because of this reason.
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