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Old 18th July 2014, 09:04 PM   #31
mcross19
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I still think a 90cm+ board has its place, its just a very narrow window of advantage.
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Old 18th July 2014, 09:58 PM   #32
mark h
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Luckily the remainder of the PWA tour is at windy locations, so board size should not be an issue.

But personally, I still think the limit could do with being raised to 90cm for the heavy weights. Most heavy weight pros are now using super wide booms to squeeze as much power out of their biggest sail, and I heard that Bjorn even occasionally uses a huge 52cm fin. So the only area left to improve us boards. I'm sure Remi and other top board designers could take up this challenge.

Although the us147 is a fantastic light wind board, I can't help but think a 90cm and shorter (like the iS130) would be much faster. I don't think it us necessary to go much bigger than 85cm as this board would still have to be controllable at events with gusty 15k to 20k races.

I have agree with Matt on the 85cm vs formula top speed in 12k-ish winds. This is why they only need to be slightly bigger. Not tried the is130 as yet, but my is137 is incredibly efficient "once" planning. To date, my max speed on it is 35k with an 8.6m. We're as my max speed on my F161 is 31k with a 9.5. Both done on super flat waters at west kirby in fairly strong winds, but remember this boards have to work in all wind conditions, another reason why I have doubts about boards being wider than 90cm. We need small adjustments not huge over night changes. But Basically, the 85cm would kill a board that us to wide in any gusts at 11/12k.

I can't find any US147 sessions on gpsss.com. What sort of speeds are being hit on it?

Personally I think the pros are looking for it all, top speed, control, acceleration out of gybes etc and this is why an all new 90cm would be good. And, it shouldn't effect travel luggage costs to much either.

Can't help but think how formula has moved on since the original F175's to the current versions. But although things have improved with xl slalom, we have not really moved on in leaps and bounds like Formula models.

Sorry for the long post, seems like I can't write anything without waffling on and on these days
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Last edited by mark h; 18th July 2014 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 18th July 2014, 11:59 PM   #33
mcross19
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Waffle but nonetheless interesting waffle unlike a certain MR Basher! Haha

Yes I agree a slight change to board width would certainly help and make life more interesting for the events that edge toward the minimum limit.

As said before I think it would be easy enough for the R&D guys to upscale the current largest isonic cos that is all that the US147 is with a couple of extra cm in front of the mast base.

I'm hoping to get out this weekend at Portland on the US and 9.5 so will try and remember the GPS.

Would be good to hear from the TEAM on this subject as they have been extremely quiet.....
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Old 19th July 2014, 08:13 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcross19 View Post
Hi Matt, I will be down at Portland this Sunday and Monday if you are about for testing?

If not I usually grab a couple of days off work during speed week and you are welcome to give the board a go.
Waiting for replacement mast for my 9.6, I will think about Sunday, but without a big sail may be a little pointless
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Old 21st July 2014, 05:09 AM   #35
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I don't think GPS speed has anything to do with "is a 90 wide board as fast as a 85 wide board" when it comes to slalom. Its not flat water, its not a speed course, but all about getting planing quickly out of gybes and going as fast as possible between them. In the distance between the buoys, ultimate top speed does not come in to it.
I don't often use a GPS, but for info, not difficult to see 26 knots with a 9.5 in the lighter airs on the 147. In similar conditions I have had maybe 0.5 knot faster on a 85 wide board. Not enough to make up for a few seconds longer to get on the plane and accelerate. Of course the 58cm fin vs a 48cm fin might be the difference here.
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Old 21st July 2014, 06:23 PM   #36
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What works on the slalom course also works in gps conditions, so there is a common link between the two.

Most uploaded sessions on gp3s.com are not done on a speed course, but are usually done on open water in typical slalom event conditions. Real speed conditions on a proper speed course are very rear (unless you live in La Franqui or prepared to travel 1000's of miles) So gps results are relevant.

Gps3s.com also have alpha racing results showing average speed to include a gybe (better the gybe, the faster the average speed).

Being .5 knots faster over a typical 45 second leg between buoys would put you roughly 10 meters ahead . Now I sound like an annoying knob )

Just my 2 cents worth
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Last edited by mark h; 21st July 2014 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 06:49 AM   #37
Remi
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Hi All,

Very interesting topic and live in Light Wind place and our favorite board for hi performances in Lighter winds is definitely the UltraSonic 147.
At equal size sail the iSonic 130 have no chance at all under 12 knots, actually PWA rules is 7 Knots and sorry to say that is a joke for the current equipment, even Formula Windsurfing have problem with this wind limit with 12.5m and 1m wide board!!!
So sure to extend the width until 95cm will be a massive change with out changing the size sails. Look how much events last year was in light winds, all of them. And on top of that for me is exactly the same from jumping from UltraSonic 147 to iSonic 107 vs iSonic 130 to iSonic 107. At the end a lot more races will be done and the PWA tour will get a lot of benefits of it by organizing many other events in light wind place who want them to come with money!!!
Just my 2 cents

All the best
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Old 22nd July 2014, 09:33 PM   #38
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I think that a change in the PWA rules to increase max board width to 90x would very good for the industry. As well as events being more exciting to watch, manufactures would get a boost in board sales because many heavy amateur sailers would be replacing their 85cm to the newer 90x boards, and possibly their medium boards too (for me it would be iS90x wide and iS110 instead of iS107 and iS137).

I wonder if jimmy Diaz would be the man to talk too!!
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Old 24th July 2014, 11:52 AM   #39
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Hmmmmmmm who the heck wants to do slalom in <10 knots? It's just abysmal...

What would be really cool is a return to the course racing days; keep the format 6/3 and sailors can choose to register a formula board as their lightwind board and we do upwind course racing in light winds. All the legends grew up with course racing and are still good at it - Finian, Micah, Benny, Jimmy, Steve, Gonz, Arnon, Ross, Antoine etc etc so I don't see it as a disadvantage to anyone. Could even let the sailors choose what sails they want to register (maybe 2 formula sails + 4 slalom, or 1 formula sail + 5 slalom; make the sail choice for the year really interesting).

I couldn't think of anything worse than having to compete against the big guys on 95cm slalom boards where I will take the 80cm because I'm 80kg and I won't hang on to a 95cm if it gets windy then at the same time go and throw any 85cm board ever made in to the TRASH because they don't have resale value anymore as we invent (yet another) board width class...arghh.

All this being said I wonder if he have a few windy events in a row, Fuerte/Turkey/Sylt/La Torche/New Caledonia then everyone will have totally forgotten this whole conversation ........... ?
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Old 24th July 2014, 12:42 PM   #40
Remi
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Hi Sean
That will be nice to have Formula come back but look it will way more difficult to get it due to riders first (except those who do Formula already who is very small, none of the other want this happen) and second due to their is a class already for Formula. But nothing is impossible.
Have fun in Fierte and for this time WIND will be there!

All the best
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