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Old 24th October 2010, 09:16 PM   #1
nakaniko
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Default Serenity is coming in Venice

Here I am, I'm Nico from Venice
The "damage" is done!
After months and days of reflection and research I've ordered a Serenity Sportech!
I'll have to go and pick up it by myself far from home, and then carry it with a car-boat redez-vous in my (water)town. I will store it for winter under a roof in my parent's house, hangin it (safely) at the the rafters of the 15-16' century...

I feel like I'm daring a little because of the opinions of windsurfer friends who are still very close to the "classic" actual and imho nasty idea of windsurfing, that nothing under 12 knots is real wind...
And really is the second time in life I buy a new windsurf board, incomes in Italy are not so good...
But I strongly believe Serenity is the way to windsurf almost everyday I want and I can in my town. For various reasons I've had only two planing windsurfing sessions in Venice this year!

Anyway now I have a lot of questions.
Fin: I know I'll have to buy a seaweed fin as I use on my other boards in Venice, that have powerbox head, as I don't think it will be possible to use 70 cm fin (shallow waters are usual outside channels, and windsurf is authorized only there). Powerbox/deep tuttle adapter? I mean direct, not reducing the actual head to a multifin and then buyng two adapters. Otherwise I've read about Lessacher's: Chamaleon or Duo? Lessacher's are surely the best, but like for my actual Fanatic weed 32-48 fin a cheaper g-10 construction seems easier to sand every time I scratch the tip on the seabed as I often do to my actual Fanatic; and therefore the concave idea seems to be a must to avoid spinouts problems in planing boards, but as a centrefin on a serenity, seems not to be useful... Or the result is more speed even on Serenity?

Fin 2, the rear little fin. I own and keep in Venice 3 us fins, a square freestyle 26 with similar shape compared to the little 13 provided, a curved 28 and a pheraphs too big 38, the former fin for my first Bic Calypso. Except for the 38 that I fear it can damage the serenity tail box, some advandage from a slightly bigger us fin?

Protection(s). As I've read that Serenity is not the stronger board, I was wondering to apply some protection for carryng it, a protection for boom impacts, a long strap system for towing it from the boat, but especially a nose protection to avoid breackage problems, like in finding hard object floating in the water (unfortunately not so difficult here). I've seen that also in one of the serenity offical video can be clearly seen the damaged tip, even if on a more delicate wood version. Suggestions?

Last edited by nakaniko; 25th October 2010 at 04:26 AM. Reason: mistake in the title
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Old 24th October 2010, 11:46 PM   #2
Barker
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nakaniko,
I can't offer any advice on the Serenity I'm afraid (but offer good luck) but I am interested that you windsurf in Venice having visited in 2007 and really enjoyed the place. I remember seeing some of the water of the lagoon on ferry trips back to St Marco from the island of Murano, from St Marco across to the strip of land that has the Adriatic beach and an early evening boat ride from the centre out to the airport. Do you sail somewhere in the lagoon? or from the Adriatic beach? Anyway, good for you, and I hope you find the Serenity works out well.
Regards
Barker
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Old 25th October 2010, 12:31 AM   #3
Roger
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Hi Nico,
I responded a couple of days ago, but somehow the thread got shuffled to being "watched" as SPAM.
Anyway, I will repsond again now that your thread has opened back up.

"Anyway now I have a lot of questions."
"Fin: I know I'll have to buy a seaweed fin as I use on my other boards in Venice, that have powerbox head, as I don't think it will be possible to use 70 cm fin (shallow waters are usual outside channels, and windsurf is authorized only there). Powerbox/deep tuttle adapter? I mean direct, not reducing the actual head to a multifin and then buyng two adapters. Otherwise I've read about Lessacher's: Chamaleon or Duo? Lessacher's are surely the best, but like for my actual Fanatic weed 32-48 fin a cheaper g-10 construction seems easier to sand every time I scratch the tip on the seabed as I often do to my actual Fanatic; and therefore the concave idea seems to be a must to avoid spinouts problems in planing boards, but as a centrefin on a serenity, seems not to be useful... Or the result is more speed even on Serenity?"

My experience with the 70 cm fin that comes with the Serenity (I had them in my demo fleet for 2 years)
is that you do not need that big a fin. The huge 70 cm that comes with the board is a great fin, but it has a really BIG downside....... it "bites" really suddenly in transitions (tacks and jibes) and can throw you off the board until you get used to it.
I found that if you rail the Serenity correctly, you can get nearly as good upwind performance with much smaller fins.
My favorite vertical fin was a 60 cm DeBoichet Concept.
I also used alot of different weed fins and found that the 36 cm Lessacher Duo worked great.
The double concaves on the Lessacher fins are not about speed (they help with drag, but on the Lessacher Duo Weed the concaves are what makes these fins shed weeds so well.
So, if you rig smaller than 8.5 m2 on the Serenity, the Lessacher Duo Weed 36 cm in the front and and tiny Lessacher Duo Weed 26 cm (In "A" or Euro box) in the back should give you great performance on the Serenity.
Big fins just create alot of drag and even at slow speeds reducing drag is important.
Also, I would stay away from any sort of fin root adapter! Just buy the Lessacher Duo Weeds and fit them carefully to your Serenity and you will have the best fins for the type of sailing you can do on the Serenity!

"Fin 2, the rear little fin. I own and keep in Venice 3 us fins, a square freestyle 26 with similar shape compared to the little 13 provided, a curved 28 and a pheraphs too big 38, the former fin for my first Bic Calypso. Except for the 38 that I fear it can damage the serenity tail box, some advandage from a slightly bigger us fin?"

No advantage to a larger fin. Smaller fins and smaller sails (I used the Severne Glide 7.5 m2 sail that was specifically designed for the Serenity much of the time, but found that 5.5-6.5 Sailworks Retros and a 5.0
Sailworks Retro Ripper (all very powerful in very light wind if rigged for light wind) worked really well and did not reduce the speed very much.

"Protection(s). As I've read that Serenity is not the stronger board, I was wondering to apply some protection for carryng it, a protection for boom impacts, a long strap system for towing it from the boat, but especially a nose protection to avoid breackage problems, like in finding hard object floating in the water (unfortunately not so difficult here). I've seen that also in one of the serenity offical video can be clearly seen the damaged tip, even if on a more delicate wood version. Suggestions?"

Might want to put a rubber bumper of some sort right on the front tip, but the Serenity boards I had were both WOOD construction and I really had no problems with dings at all.
You are getting the slightly tougher Sport Tech construction, so if you don't run the nose into seawalls and such, you should have no issues with dings.
Remember, you are not going at fully planing speeds, so you have time to turn away from things that will damage your Serenity.
As far as damage to the tips of the Lessacher Carbon Duo Weed fins, all of my Duo Weeds are worn down a bit, but it does not seem to have affected the performance very much, if at all.
Be sure to run weed fins in both the front and rear because if you run a vertical fin in the back it will collect weeds and you will have to get off or back up to clear them off the fin.
Hope this helps,
Roger
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Old 25th October 2010, 03:40 AM   #4
Barker
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Roger,
I don't know whether you have seen but I'd be really grateful for any comment on my post of yesterday re nose damage to an iSonic please. Your advice on other structural problems has been really helpful in the past. Many thanks
Barker
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Old 25th October 2010, 09:43 AM   #5
Roger
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Hi Barker,
Can you send me a photo of the damaged area?
I'm sure that the Isonic is not molded in two pieces as you have seen with other boards with a molded on
top and bottom skins.
The Isonic will have at least 2 overlaps of glass or carbon fiber on the nose, with structural foam and another layer of thin fiberglass under the structural foam. Then the core foam.
So, I doubt that you have a "separation" of the upper skin and lower skin because that is not how the Isonics are constructed.
On a few Starboards, when they overlap the top and bottom layers of fiberglass/carbon, I've seen the "trim line" (usually on GOs and Starts with an EVA deck where they sand the EVA flush with the lower side of the board) where they have sanded it too thin, but this would not apply to an Isonic.
Without seeing the damage it's impossible to tell you if the damage extends beyound the outer layers of your board.
My guess would be that it does not, and that if you sand/fair the white finish off the nose you can make a good looking and structurally sound repair with one or 2 layers of 12 oz/sq ft fiberglass cloth.
Apply the glass, squeegee in an appropriate amount of epoxy resin, sand it fair and repaint it, and your board should be as good as new.
If you have a photo, send it to me @
sailquik@embarqmail.com
Hope this helps,
Roger
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Old 25th October 2010, 03:52 PM   #6
nakaniko
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Thanks Roger

"I responded a couple of days ago, but somehow the thread got shuffled to being "watched" as SPAM."

Thanks for reposting. There could be some problems about messages, I've written 3 times like an answer to my original topic (Serenity, rent/test in Northe Italy?), and one time like new message, nothing to do, then I decided to create a new personal account.

"I also used alot of different weed fins and found that the 36 cm Lessacher Duo worked great. The double concaves on the Lessacher fins are not about speed (they help with drag, but on the Lessacher Duo Weed the concaves are what makes these fins shed weeds so well. So, if you rig smaller than 8.5 m2 on the Serenity, the Lessacher Duo Weed 36 cm in the front and and tiny Lessacher Duo Weed 26 cm (In "A" or Euro box) in the back should give you great performance on the Serenity. Big fins just create alot of drag and even at slow speeds reducing drag is important. Also, I would stay away from any sort of fin root adapter! Just buy the Lessacher Duo Weeds and fit them carefully to your Serenity and you will have the best fins for the type of sailing you can do on the Serenity!" (...)
Be sure to run weed fins in both the front and rear because if you run a vertical fin in the back it will collect weeds and you will have to get off or back up to clear them off the fin.


Mmm then I'll consider buying the Lessacher Duo 36. I've seen that also Lessacher puts the sizes of the weed fins by the depht, and then there is the link to a page that shows the lenght of the raked fin assuming 45' degreees of rake like the standard. so it's a 36/50. I would like much more the system used by my old Fanatic weed fin that has written both the lenght and depht, in the Fanatic is written 34/48 (depht/lenght), I've checked my other Prolimt and it's 32/40 and then clearly less raked than the Fanatic one.
Right that also the rear fin has to be a weed fin, even if I forgot to tell that many times for me the problem is not floating weeds, but alive seaweeds in shallow waters that only somewhere reach the water surface, so I have problems with long fins, not with the small ones. But for sure a tiny seaweed also on the tail could be better. The point I don't understand is that if assuming 26 the depht of the fin, that one would be a really bigger fin than the provided one 13,5 cm, being - if 45' raked - somewhat like a 26/36 (according to Lessacher website)... So, as you tell no advandages from a rear bigger fin than the provided one, pheraphs did you mean the Weed Wave 18 that is 18/25 or an even smaller one not from Lessacher?

"Might want to put a rubber bumper of some sort right on the front tip, but the Serenity boards I had were both WOOD construction and I really had no problems with dings at all.
You are getting the slightly tougher Sport Tech construction, so if you don't run the nose into seawalls and such, you should have no issues with dings."


These news make me very happy. I'll have to carry it in my (traditional wooden) boat so I was a little worried about it. But I have also to find a solution in case of towing the board (as I've done a lot of times with my Mistral Echo, because I suppose that when reducing the speed of the boat the serenity could slam into the stern of my boat...

"Remember, you are not going at fully planing speeds, so you have time to turn away from things that will damage your Serenity."

Hehehe but with such a long nose you have to see the floating objects before they are near to the board, and it's not easy in not crystal clear water like our. On the opposite when travelling fast I've see that Serenity nose rise over the water surface, so less problems. I'll also have to see ho quickly reacts this sailing gondola when I suddenly change directionto avoid something-

"No advantage to a larger fin. Smaller fins and smaller sails (I used the Severne Glide 7.5 m2 sail that was specifically designed for the Serenity much of the time, but found that 5.5-6.5 Sailworks Retros and a 5.0
Sailworks Retro Ripper (all very powerful in very light wind if rigged for light wind) worked really well and did not reduce the speed very much."


About sails I'm gonna use my actual freeride sails, an HSM Stealth 8,5 from 1999 and pheraphs the similar Stealth 9,5 from 2003. I've seen slightly different opinions about it, anyway for me the way is simple, as I want to carry in my boat also my other freeeride board, so if wind slightly pick up over 12 ktn I can switch to the other board without changing sail, and this as you can understand, is way easier doing all in or from a boat...

Hope this helps,
Roger


Very much as usual. Thanks

Last edited by nakaniko; 1st November 2010 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 25th October 2010, 04:10 PM   #7
nakaniko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barker View Post
nakaniko,
I can't offer any advice on the Serenity I'm afraid (but offer good luck) but I am interested that you windsurf in Venice having visited in 2007 and really enjoyed the place. I remember seeing some of the water of the lagoon on ferry trips back to St Marco from the island of Murano, from St Marco across to the strip of land that has the Adriatic beach and an early evening boat ride from the centre out to the airport. Do you sail somewhere in the lagoon? or from the Adriatic beach? Anyway, good for you, and I hope you find the Serenity works out well.
Regards
Barker
Venice unfortunately have poor and light winds, so this is the reason for Serenity. Anyway I use to carry all the windsurf stuff in my boat to the northern side of the lagoon, as my parents live there. Up to some years ago I used to have windsurf sessions just in front on Fondamente Nove, i.e. where you took the ferry to Murano island. Few minutes to reach the spot, but polluted water from the town, even if I have some photo of me planing with the town beside and also with S. Marco bell tower in the background; and when I was still living with my parents I was able to be on the windsurf in 40 minutes from my bedroom!
Since two years I moved to another slightly more far place that is north of Murano, SW to Venice airport, where I can find some shallow waters to rig easily, and i't good for the Bora (NE) and SE winds.
For the situation of Venice it's hard for me to reach Lido and the sea from Venice downtown i.e. watertown, I prefer keeping another quiver in the outskirts and then sometime go to Chioggia-Sottomarina, but only when I'm already in the mainland for work or other reasons. Even if i't strange to make a 40' car trip to reach a place that is not more than 10 km straight from my house...

Last edited by nakaniko; 1st November 2010 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 1st November 2010, 04:04 AM   #8
nakaniko
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Finally at home, my Serenity.
Since I don't trust so much in carriers, especially for so special items like a 460 cm board, after an agreement with the seller I've gone by myself to take the board at the distributor, so I took a permission at work and then I've gone directly from Venice to Munich, put the board over the roof of my car and then straight back to the house of my parents in the Alps; 1000 km from 11,30 a.m. to 1.00 a.m. of the following day... If this insn't love for our sport... The day after I went home for a meeting with my cousin's boat and then finally carrying in Venice the Serenity.
Unwrapped the big pack and then what a look! For sure one of the most fascinating and wonderful things I've ever bought in my life!
It reminds me the sailing boats that my granfather teach me to admire when I was a child and I use almost every day to go on his old famous boat (that now can be seen in the local museum!). Especially the Serenity seems to be like the long, narrow and fascinating type called "cutter".
Unfortunately now is cold and rainy, really I can wait to ride it until next spring. Meanwhile I have time to find a lot of solutions for the problems of carrying the Serenity in my parent's traditional boat and also for towing it from the boat.
I feel I want to thank Starboard for having the courage of doing something so unusual and beautiful, going against all vogues. I feel it's something like having an high class sailing boat without all the problems and expenses of this kind of boats, and the same time feeling the uncomparable sensations of windsurfing in most of the real wind days that we have.
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Old 9th November 2010, 03:42 AM   #9
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Hi All!
I have Serenity sporttech (2010) in Moscow. This is a very interesting board! The wind in our region is light, not stable in the direction and in the velocity, because there are many obstacles on the lake beech. I used a Sailworks Retros 7.5, my weight is 80 kg. For the usual conditions with the wind 2-6 knots this sail is small for me and some heavy for this wind. What sail is better for my condition, Severne Glide 8.5 m2 (2010) or Severne Raceboard 9.5 m2 (2011) or another sail?
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Old 9th November 2010, 06:25 PM   #10
Roger
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Hi Amateur,
Since the original concept for the Glide line of sails was to power the Serenity, the Glide, with a 100% carbon mast will probably be the better of these two sails.
The Glide is a very light sail, but so is the Retro 7.5, so I don't know how you will make the rig any lighter
by going larger.
I sailed the first 2 years Serenity boards with the Severne 7.5 m2 Glide and that was to me the best overall combination.
The Serenity may surpise you . Larger sails really don't seem to improve the light wind speed by as much as you would think.
Roger
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