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Old 12th February 2007, 08:10 PM   #11
Ola_H
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

I think the two boards have more of a real Stand up Paddle heritage than old windsurf board heritage. So, no centreboard make sense. They will probably not be upwind rockets, but judging from how Jeff Hendersson and Giampaolu Camarrotta have been able to move around the breaks in super light winds on their longboards, I would say it far from "drifting" either. The long water line and the shape in general probably gives as much lift alon as a small centre fin does on a shortboard.

BTW, see Svein talk about the boards with Giampaolo on his blog:
??
http://mauisurfreport.blogspot.com/

Cheers,
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Old 12th February 2007, 09:38 PM   #12
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

The SUP seems to have little to do with windsurfing. It's just a large surf / paddle board that you can attach a sail to as well. If I didn't know better, I might think I am in a time warp - 1970's.

Starboard seems to have fun coming up with unusual boards that appeal to a very small percent of the market. I don't fault them for this, it's just surprising.

I don't think they are trying to come up with something for the masses, just experimenting and having fun with varying concepts.

I still race my original 1985 superlight a couple of times a year, plus I retired my last race long board - Equipe II XR a few year ago. Given my 23 year experience with long boards, it's difficult for me to conceive of a long board that will have universal appeal. It's a good concept, I just don't know what could be. You certainly can come up with a good recreational board or a good race board, but a combination of the two will be difficult.

However, if one design racing is the goal, a good recreational board could be raced. Performance would be limited, but in one design, it doesn't matter too much. On the other hand, except for Olympic class racing, I don't think that one design racing will never again be big. Too few people interested in racing and too many other windsurfing options.

Ken
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Old 13th February 2007, 08:15 PM   #13
James
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

Ken Wrote: "Starboard seems to have fun coming up with unusual boards that appeal to a very small percent of the market."

That's exactly what I thought when I saw the starboard SUPs. Only a tiny minority of windsurfers would choose them over more versatile longboards like the Kona.

But now I'm starting to appreciate SB's strategy. The SUPs may not appeal to many windsurfers, but they will have much more appeal to SURFERS than any other type of "windsurfable" board. Surfers outnumber windsurfers by like 20:1, so even if only 1 out of 20 surfers buy SB SUPs, SB could be selling twice as many boards as last year!

I bet SB is considering advertising the SUPs in surfing media. To compete with the other ads in surfer magazines, I think SB needs to put their SUPs next to some nearly-naked Brazillian butts.
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Old 13th February 2007, 10:02 PM   #14
crazychemical
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

Quote:
Only a tiny minority of windsurfers would choose them over more versatile longboards like the Kona.
Longboard sufring is becomming more and more popular for lightwindcondition surfing, not everyone has the right conditions all the time ...
SB is just tryig to cover as much with one board as possible when they made the Subs ... thats what i think, i mean, wave, freestyle, lightwinds and paddeling for no wind ...it al seems to fit and the shape looks quite okay, especially when compared to the serenety, which looks more like a canoo then a surfboard :d
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Old 13th February 2007, 11:51 PM   #15
steveC
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

It's worth noting the split in how Starboard's anticipated SUPs are being received in this thread. In my opinion, these boards aren't targeting one design or raceboard racing, especially since I would expect that the rockerline has been aptly taylored for maneuverability in a surf environment. Otherwise, the concept wouldn't be viable as either a capable SUP or a light wind longboard for the surf. Yet, with the addition of the optional fin type dagger it would still give many folks that live in areas far from the coast a multipurpose recreational level longboard for fun.

Needless to say, many here seem a bit disappointed that Starboard doesn't seem to be creating a completely modern full sized one design raceboard meant for serious racing. There is the Phantom, but it's quite possible that many do not see it as up to the job of serious raceboard competition that many envision. It could be that something is still in development, and that it will be presented at a later date. In reality, there is a whole lot of time before release of the 2008 offerings.

Ola H. has hit the nail on the head here with his thoughts above, and I'm glad that he directed focus to Giampaolu Camarrotta's website. For those who have never viewed Camarrotta's website, it's a goldmine of great information, photos, humor and vision. Also, Camarrotta has been a real leader in the realm of windsurfing surf designed longboards. I would highly recommend spending some time investigating his website, as it paints an excellent picture of what's going on in a very creative and engaging way.

As I mentioned in my initial post above, these SUPs REALLY have my attention, and better target my vision of the perfect longboard. I still remain hopeful that someone on the Starboard team will address my earlier questions. There are other folks like Sean Ordonez that have been building custom SUPs for some time now. In fact, there are a number of folks that I know in Santa Barbara that already have Ordonez SUPs, and they're becoming a much more visible part of the scene. Also, there have been a number of custom guys locally from the surfing industry that are making SUPs, less the mast track. That's why I mentioned the surf shop distribution/retail model in my second post above. I wouldn't underestimate the possible opportunities here, because James' comments about the numbers ratio between surfers and windsurfers is quite real.

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Old 14th February 2007, 01:22 AM   #16
Per
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

I guess that the whole point is, for 95% of the recreational windsurfers, to be able to have REAL fun in 2 to 10 knots of wind which is the most experienced daily windstrength on 90% of the planet..
For many (really many) of us the fancy suntanned hi wind and wave adventure is only part of the magazine covers or a rare holiday.

If Starboard is able to come up with a design that can add frequent fun, exercise and action to us 95% living in those 90% conditions I guess there is an unlimited marked for THE MASSES...
Actually I guess, worldwide seen, that a true niche setup for the crowd consists of a sub 80 litre wave board and and smaller than 5.5m sail...

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Old 14th February 2007, 03:22 AM   #17
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

If the market for the SUP is surfers that also want to put a sail on their board, there may be a nitch for the board for those near an ocean.

As for the inland sailors - If people want to paddle, they buy a kayak. If they want to windsurf, no one will be selling them on an SUP.

Even if the prevailing wind conditions are light, few will be content with sailing in less than 10 knots for long. Almost all of us wanted to start planing as soon as possible in the beginning, impatiently waiting for enough wind.

When I recommend boards for beginners, it's almost always somethng like a GO. Easy for learning, durable and has the potential for excellent planing performance. If you only want to sail in 2-10 knots, the SUP may be a good choice. On the other hand, once a 4 or 5 year old masters the skills of bike riding with training wheels, how many are content to never take the training wheels off?

Somene dedicated to light wind freestyle may find the SUP intriguing.

It will be interesting to see who buys these things. If for some reason, the SUP somehow entices more people into the sport, that will be a good thing. Let's hope.

Ken
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Old 16th February 2007, 02:41 PM   #18
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

Dear all.

SUP, is the re birth of wavesailing for me personally ,,,,
I have never enjoyed myself more than while waves sailing on the 12'2" SUP with Jeff Henderson on Maui this winter.
We went out without a harness in 2-9 knots, while easily climbing over the breaking waves, then turn around outside the reef and catch any waves , even the most slack ones.
Snappy bottom turns and smooth top turns , while getting plenty of speed down the line to keeping on riding the full length of the wave.
A new dimension for wavesailing .


When the wind totally disappeared , the paddle was handy to explore the coast line and try to catch a few waves at the outer reefs.
In Thailand we have tried some coast run,, good fun ,, some of my friends went so fast on the down wind paddle run that they missed
the meeting point by 7-800 meters.
Try to go out paddling into the sunset, calm water , no noise from the wind, the nose of the board cutting through the water.

Some people are confused some producers explaining that their windsurf boards that can be used for paddle boarding.
We are here discussing totally different concepts..
Our 12???2 ??? and 12???6?? are 100% Stand Up Paddle boards, that surf insane and are terrific for wavesailing too.
They also count as the best light wind freestyle boards,, but they are absolutely not planing hulls...as if they were, they would not be able to ride very well on a wave or paddle very well either. We are not looking at a windsurfing one design class here, we will leave that for other new projects that will be unveiled 15th of Aug.

SUP mixed with windsurfing is now its pioneering stage. it is a fantastic way for surfing and windsurfing to cross roads and at the same time invite all kayak and Canoe enthusiast to join.
In my early years windsurfing I used to paddle in a kayak to the little island where my windsurfing board was stored. It was hurting in my knees, neck and butt, while I got water in my face and could not really see much of what was going on around me as I was sitting down,,,,
The times the kayak capsized I had trouble getting on board again.
I will never sit down paddling again, as with SUP its all changed.

SUP, probably the best thing that happened to windsurfing and windsurfers since windsurfing.
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Old 16th February 2007, 04:16 PM   #19
Svein Rasmussen
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

Dear friends.

The above comment was posted by Svein Rasmussen
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Old 16th February 2007, 11:25 PM   #20
Per
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Default RE: A real STARTBOARD LONGBOARD???

Hi all....
For us inland riders, how will the SUP behave in ordinary wind driven swell or short chop..
Even at my coastal spot the "waves" will not be more than probably 60 cm when the wind is too low for ordinary windsurfing....
Paddling could be pretty fun then if it's possibly to ride a little on the swell... Only paddling seems good exercise but also low speed and hard work

;-)
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