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Old 11th March 2007, 11:58 PM   #1
G
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Default 101 or 111

Hallo,
great to see Starboard has the biggest slalom range on the market but it it get me crazy for the right choice!!
I'm around 82 kg , expert sailor , regional racer .
I need a beast to fight vs a couple of Sx M ..... We use to sail slalom when pretty windy so the 101 would be the choice . It can easily works if we consider only training days BUT when it comes racing situations something changes.
Wind can shift , increase or decrease while you're going to start ( !! ) , figure 8 (most of the time) or pure downwind slalom , crowd close to the starting line , replacement need to attack or defence your position . Slalom is all about ....
The best thing would be having all the range ready to make used or (much more common and cheaper!) having a very good allround board that doesn't give you problem before and during races (like every isonic model seems to be) .
So now,in a given sails range,should i go smaller or bigger ?
Thank you

P.S. is it true that 101 is too low in the water while 111 is freer ?
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Old 12th March 2007, 02:37 AM   #2
o2bnme
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Default RE: 101 or 111

What size sails will you be using on the board?

I have an iSonic 105 (basically the same as the 101). I find I can take it out with an 8.0 if the conditions keep the 8.0 fully powered up. But I only weigh 65 kg. The minute the winds let up, the 8.0 creates a very unstable situation. I find I expend too much energy sailing when the 8.0 isn't powered up.

So, if you want to use the 101 with an 8.0-8.5 make sure you are in powered to overpowered conditions. With smaller sails (6.6 - 5.6), I find that the board can float through lulls with easy. I'm usually on a smaller sail than most sailors with different boards. And I'm usually planing before them. A fellow sailor who is usually about the same speed as me was on a 150L board with a 7.9m2 sail. I was on my iS105 with a 6.6 V8. I was about as fast as him in the lighter winds, but when it picked up, I was markedly faster than him...and I was able to get on a plane sooner.

The specs for the Sx M reads like a match for the 111 but with less volume. At your weight, my gut tells me you should be looking at the 111. If you were my weight, I might be saying 101. You would be able to keep the 111 in control in stronger winds than me.

It really comes down to what sail sizes you plan on using. I've held my 105 down with a 4.8, but when the winds died a hair, the 8.0 a good match (same day). In chop, at my weight, I find I'm still learning how to keep the board's speed in chop. This might not be an issue for a larger person.

I should add... in the one race I've used my iS105 in, I was consistently the first person off the line. I could get the iS105 up on a plane much easier than my competitors. I love this board for that.
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Neil Pryde [v8 9.8], Sailworks [Retro 8.0; Hucker 6.6, 5.6, 4.8]


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Old 13th March 2007, 11:57 AM   #3
ThierryP
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Default RE: 101 or 111

Quote:

" is it true that 101 is too low in the water while 111 is freer ?"

I have had a lot of wind since I bought my 115, so I have not had a chance to use it much, but I have used my 105 plenty, and I can testify that it does sit too low in the water. Everything else (apart from jibing) about this board is fantastic!
A 111 should be used in less wind than a 101, so there should be naturally fewer instances of the nose catching in swell or steep chop.
Wind is getting lighter, so I might be able to give you a comparision within a couple of weeks, depending on actual wind conditions.
Best of luck with your choice,

Thierry
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Old 13th March 2007, 03:37 PM   #4
G
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Default RE: 101 or 111

Thank you guys,
remember that 2007 isonic are a bit different than 2006. Larger tail,different aspect ratios and so on....
So some dedicated adviced will be more than welcome
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Old 13th March 2007, 06:04 PM   #5
Remi
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Default RE: 101 or 111

Hi G,

Give us more information :

Your size sails and fins you use

All the best
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Can answer if you have any questions on this following boards :

Carve 111, 121, 131, 141, 151 & 161
Futura 93, 101, 111, 121, 131 & 141.
iSonic 80, 87, 90, 97, 107, 110, 117 & 130
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UltraSonic 147
Formula Experience One Design
Phantom Race 377 & 377 L / 320
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Phantom 295 L :
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Formula 167 :
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Racing Serinity Cat Concept
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Old 13th March 2007, 06:23 PM   #6
G
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Default RE: 101 or 111

Hi Remi,
180 cm for kg 82, trained for regional races , 9,0-7,8 Warp 2006 , 7,2 rs5 , N5 6,3.
Usually we go out for slalom when too windy for our 161 but as I've said above this season we could race in 16 kns....
Already own other 2 slalom boards (bigger and smaller) that don't match good the rules!!!
I'm listening Remi.....
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Old 14th March 2007, 07:34 AM   #7
Ian Fox
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Default RE: 101 or 111

Hi G,

If you want to maintain some serious light wind 7.8 and typical 9.0 conditions performance, then the decision to take iS111 over 101 is pretty easy. You will also find the 111 is not so bad with 7.2m and even 6.3 (although those sizes are more typically the sweetspot for 101/82kg ) - in fact, even the 122 (not in consideration, but useful as a reference) behaves better in "overpowered" or choppy conditions that everyone expects, so don't be too concerned the size of the 111 is a handicap. Most especially in race conditions, where it's critical to be fast "all the time", rather than "faster some of the time". Moreso if Fig 8 as the upwind leg is usually more to gain/lose than downwind, and the upwind ofen tests the planing threshold of the combo more than the downwind..

When pushed hard into overpower mode, the 111 will tend to ride more across the chop than the 101 - in those same conditions. This means a number of subtle things, but in summary for this discussion, the 111 will benefit from a more "overpower" style of rider technique when ridden in conditions that would be more typical for 101- that's to say, if you're the type of rider who can really put the power down and just blast thru, then the "disadvantage" of using the larger 111 in 101 conditions is less.

Re Thierry's comments : how low is "too low" depends on a lot of things, in fact in technical analysis of a design "riding too low" usually implies a board that is not riding "free enough", rather than a board that may not have enough nose scoop/lift/rocker (so 2 different attributes). In the case of the 101, the nose lift is low, but the board rides moderately free (almost to "freeride" potential). the jibe on the 101 is also noticeably better (freer/more instictive) than the previous 105.

Cheers ~ Ian



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Old 15th March 2007, 12:19 AM   #8
G
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Default RE: 101 or 111

Thank you Ian,
when we talk about med size board as 111 is all depends from what point of view we consider the question.
If I search low wind attitude of course i know what I need,and viceversa.
Now,for me,the problem is choose just 1 board that help me from 14-16 kns to everything in a slalom course.
Do the 111 have enough high wind control (helped by a small fin) that permits me to not worry of the board while racing?
Do the 101 have enough low end to keep me going when in the pack and "only" 14-16 kns ?!
Do the 101 perform well on a 7,8 Warp 2006 or this sail will push more than I need the board's nose down?
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Old 15th March 2007, 05:36 AM   #9
Ian Fox
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Default RE: 101 or 111

Hi G,

Although on paper the decision might look tight, when as many "variables" for your specific circumstances (inc having a higher wind slalom board) and conditions are factored into this particular choice, the decision (based on what we see) is pretty easy in favor of 111.

Q1 =Do the 111 have enough high wind control (helped by a small fin) that permits me to not worry of the board while racing?
A1= Yes, with the right rider style/technique (not difficult, but to get the very best requires "commitment" to load the rig and board) the 111 will most likely suprise you in a very positive way about how far into the mid/hi wind slaom range it can go and still be effective, most especially as a race weapon under "always varying" racing conditions (as you specified)

Q2= Do the 101 have enough low end to keep me going when in the pack and "only" 14-16 kns ?!
A2= Yes, but it become more critical to rider skill (etc), that's to say , obviously you will meet "marginal" conditions earlier (going down in wind power) on 101 than 111 : so with 111 the "reserve" of performance in failing power situations is better.

Q3 =Do the 101 perform well on a 7,8 Warp 2006 or this sail will push more than I need the board's nose down?
A3= Again depends to some extent on rider technique (size/style), because as the sail starts to overload the front, the rider can counter with more load onto the back and the result can be pretty good !!
But in general, with 7.8m, the less risky, more balanced (less leveraged) choice will be the 111.

In choppy "real world" racing conditions, the speed difference is not as large as you might think between the bigger board ( blasting over the top of chop with more impact but also more tolerant of less careful trim ) and the smaller board ( less impact, less drag - and theoretically MORE control in higher wind/chop - but also less tolerant of innaccurate trim (which is more likely on the smaller board when the smaller board is overpowered with the same size sail ).
Long sentence, but you get the idea..

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Cheers ~ Ian
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Old 15th March 2007, 07:00 PM   #10
G
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Default RE: 101 or 111

oh yes Ian, you're very clear.From all has been told 111 is the one but,you know what,this morning we have new adv from Association and we will slalom just when at least 19/20 kns (they seem to give more emphas to formula).
It make me switch for 101 hoping to not have a "scary" machine when well powered up and hard chop in front or across me....
If you have any adv to right trim in this situation,please,let me know.
thank you
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