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Old 10th March 2012, 10:35 AM   #1
f2sunset
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Default Best early planning board with a dagger??

Hello I'm George. I would appreciate any suggestions since I'm looking for a board with volume and a daggerboard. I have a 132lt carbon freeride 250x69 cm with 7.0 twin cam for light wind days.Since I don't want to buy a large-wide freerace was wondering which would be the best for early planning. Starboard rio S 269x76 180lt , F2 xanthos 280x72 160lt or jp funster 258x80 160lt. I'm only interested in early planning.Do you think I would go with more width or the F2 would be better because of less drag? I can plane earlier with an x-cite ride 130lt than with x-cite ride 145 (think because is narrower and lighter??).I have seen from the forums that others go more width and others with more waterline and less drag, I'm confused!Where I windsurf is mainly light wind up to 12 knots with gusts so I will be using the gust to get in plane (not good for longboards I guess since they plane gradually) I weigh 72kg (158lb) and I can get into plane at about a gust of 10-12 knots with my 130lt and 7.0 sail..Do you think that I could plane earlier with these boards compared to my 130lt freeride?Could use the daggerboard for non planning and my girfriend.
Waiting for your help , thanks!
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Old 10th March 2012, 11:04 AM   #2
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it seems formula boards are considered the "earliest planers"
we all know about their width, short length, long fins and cost
also, the earliest planing is achieved on these boards with "pumping"
apparently they are quoted as having the possibility of planing around 7-8 knots
again, this has to be with pumping

longboards can plane fairly early without pumping, but not until around 12 knots
under 12 knots in "gusty" unsteady winds they are pleasure to sail as they glide through lulls

160 liter freeride wide board will plane early for heavyweight
130 liter freeride wide board will plane even earlier for lighter rider like yourself

so, can you get on a plane earlier than 10 knots ??

maybe - butt NOT worth the effort NOR the $$$
how come we are never satisfied and always want more ? :-)
i include myself in that question :-)
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Old 10th March 2012, 11:10 AM   #3
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http://www.guycribb.com/userfiles/do...rlyPlaning.pdf
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Old 10th March 2012, 01:21 PM   #4
Roger
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I'm puzzled.... why do you want a daggerboard/centerboard on your early planing board?
Wide boards (85 cm -101 cm wide) and larger sails (8.5m-10.0m free race sails with plenty of
draft depth to give maximum light wind (< 10 knots) power are the only boards that truly "plane"
in < 12 knots of wind.
What can you do with a centerboard/daggerboard that you cannot do on a wide short board?
If the winds are < 7 knots, yes, a longbooard or a wider transitional board will be faster, point higher
(if you do extreme things like railing, moving the mast foot fully forward, etc.) and might be a little easier to sail.
Below 7 knots, you are just cruising.....regardless of the type/width of the board and sail size.
You can take this to the extreme and get a Serenity with a 7.5-8.5 m2 sail and go by virtually everyone
in < 7 knots.
But in the 8-12 knot range, with an 8.5 m2 rig (larger 8.5-10.0 for heavier sailors >90 Kg.) a wide 90-101 cm formula or wide slalom board is the only board that will truly plane.
By railing the wide board, you can still get back upwind (albeit a little more slowly) than a longboard/transitional board with a centerboard/daggerboard.
Some of the new wider transitonal boards like the Rio M almost fill this gap (8-12 knots planing) but they are not wide or light enough to "pop loose onto a plane" with a couple of pumps like the very wide short planing flat formula and wide slalom boards.
About the best board for these conditons is the Ultrasonic 147 with a large (=> 8.5 m2) rig.
Hope this helps,
Roger
P.S. Your girlfriend will love sailing a wider board (she will fall off a whole lot less often) and she can be taught
to tip the upwind rail down to go upwind very easily.
Standing slightly off center to the upwind side will cant the board so that it sails upwind on the rocker shaped into the bottom of the board.
It's not intuitive, specially for sailors who have learned on a narrow tippy board, but on the wider board it's very easy to show them and explain how it works. Once they know this, they are pretty much "done with daggerboards"forever.

Last edited by Roger; 10th March 2012 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 10th March 2012, 04:17 PM   #5
f2sunset
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Thanks for the response guys! Roger I just wanted to ask you about a comment you had made in another thread for early planning that a starboard start would plane earlier than a formula board.This really impressed me but now I'm confused with comments you made.The widest board I have ever tried is a jp slalom 130 lt around 82cm wide.It was planning the whole time when others where with larger boards and 9 and larger sails.What I didn't like was the far out position of straps.No comfort at all for me. I have never tried any other wide board hence when I learned windsurfing nearly 20 years ago I had a tiga longboard so I don't know anything about newer wide boards.I thought considering your comment tha I could plane as early with a starboard rio for example and I could lose in performance. I say for daggerboard to teach friends and upwind performance when not planning. I understand that for early planning you need width and low weight as I understand? Since I already have 3 boards I would prefer buying a fun board lets say than another large freeride since I already have the 130lt. Is there any board with dagger to do that or I will lose my money?

Thanks again!
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Old 10th March 2012, 04:32 PM   #6
f2sunset
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Thanks also unregistered guest. When you write about freeride board of 130 and 160 lts you mean that I would plane earlier in the 130 than the 160?thanks for guycribb file (already seen it,very helpfull). You are correct,we are never satisfied but when going down to the beach and the conditions are marginal I always wish I could go with a board that could plane or anyway have fun. Wouldn't go with serenity or with larger sails or large fins. I had larger sails up to 8.5 and I found out that with the Naish 7.0 twin cam I have now(rigs on rdm 430) because its very light and compact I can almost do as well in the low end but don't have to change sail if the wind picks up. Very easy to uphaul as well. I have also seen a video in you tube with a bic nova 180 and 8.0 rig that planes in extremely low wind and this is a starter board.Thats why I was wondering. I want to avoid formulas and large freewide boards and go with a board like the rio if its possible.Has anyone compared such boards with ultrasonic or large futuras for example in early planning?
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Old 12th March 2012, 08:51 PM   #7
ZedZdeD
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maybe if your search for an early planning board, what would really provide you with an interesting complement to your short boards is a hybrid raceboard (Starboard 295, Starboard 320, Neil Pryde RS-One, Neil Pryde RS-X)

II bought a Phantom 320 (I even have 2 now), and really, I never made a better use of my money. Before that in light wind I was wasting too many afternoons waiting for three times 10 seconds of planning, and suffering absolutely non interesting navigation when non planning on a board made only for planning conditions, now I rediscover windurfing, I sail 10 times more often, and always with great pleasure, on a technical interesting challengingn board, planning or not

-> planning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3EtB34NW1w

-> or not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Cb4...eature=channel

kind regards
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Old 29th March 2012, 02:01 PM   #8
f2sunset
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Thanks a lot ZedZdeD.Just saw your post. I know what you mean about the afternoons of 10'' planning! I really like the phantom 320 but its out of my reach,very expensive.I'm not sure that I can find a used one since no one ever sells such boards.I can maybe find a bic techno od used or new in a nice price.What do you think about these boards?

Thanks a lot!!
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Old 2nd April 2012, 08:21 AM   #9
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I have sailed the Phantom 295 and 320 as well as techno 293 OD.
The technos are an older design, not so refined but still do a remarkably good job.
The phantoms have better fin and centreboard and other inovative features.
Both techno and phantom would be better for performance than any of the other beginer boards you mentioned earlier.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 09:06 PM   #10
f2sunset
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymatta View Post
I have sailed the Phantom 295 and 320 as well as techno 293 OD.
The technos are an older design, not so refined but still do a remarkably good job.
The phantoms have better fin and centreboard and other inovative features.
Both techno and phantom would be better for performance than any of the other beginer boards you mentioned earlier.

Thanks Tony.Since I have no experience in such boards do they perform in the lower end too??Most (including Roger) suggest I should go with a wide slalom board which I don't like as once I get onto plane it feels like a very large board.I prefer narrower boards.Would the phantom 295 plane early? Reading the specs I prefer the 295 over the 320.
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