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Old 1st June 2012, 09:25 AM   #21
RAW
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Gyurmo,
What does Star-board and it's current Dream Team which includes many former and current world champions think the way ahead for windsurfing should be?
Race-board, Formula, Slalom??? Something else???
Windsurfing can give the Oympics 49er performance and spectacle with the technicality of the Fin or Star class, both technical boats to sail but in my opinion, not exciting to watch.
Does it matter that windsurfing at the Olympics uses cutting edge equipment? Doesn't that just increase the spectacle as equipment/performance advances whilst needing increasing technical ability to sail to these levels.
I would be interested to hear from the best about the best way forward.
Tks

Last edited by RAW; 1st June 2012 at 09:35 AM. Reason: Finger trouble..
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Old 1st June 2012, 10:41 PM   #22
Gyurmo
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hi raw,

for Starboard the olimpic area was always a priority since become enough strong. in 2000 lots of us trust in olimpic class change to 2004. we believed formula windsurfing is ready to replace the mistral one design. it did not happened.

in 2004 eleven equipment applied to be olimpic class for 2008. starboard had an aspirant equipment.

i was there at lake garda when the aspirant of neilpryde, the rs:x first time touched the water. peter bijl is not a small guy, but he flied with the gear like a 66 kg guy on mistral one design… this gear was surprise good. very early planning, even in light wind upwind was acceptable. few days later in england this board win the selection. i did not try all the boards but i think the selection had a fair result when rs:x was chosen for olimpic class. but that rs:x board and the production real rs:x olimpic board IS DIFFERENT! how let do this isaf – I don’t know…

svein was eleventh on the first windsurfing olimpic games in los angeles '84. so i think for starboard the olimpic games will be always interesting - for subjective reasons too .

to rio 2016 isaf did not give chance to anyone to challenge the rs:x only for kiters. i think in 2016 starboard (will be) ready to introduce a totally different concept for olimpic class for 2020 olimpic.

first we have to see what’s happen in november. will stay kite the olimpic class in rio 2016 or isaf bring back the rs:x? very small chance, but i hope isaf will fix this huge mistake and second one will happen...

gyurmo
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Old 2nd June 2012, 03:52 AM   #23
RAW
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Tks for your reply Gyurmo,
I think we all hope this ridiculous decision is overturned.
I really hope you guys at Star-board can either take Formula to new heights for even more spectacular racing or can design outside the current square and design something amazing ( lets face it that is what Star-board and Svein are most famous for).
A lot of youngsters are relying on you to keep their Olympic dreams alive.
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Old 4th June 2012, 06:39 AM   #24
Jean-Marc
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Time for action now before ISAF next August 1st deadline :

1) Sign the petition to keep windsurfing in the olympics;

http://www.change.org/petitions/isaf...pic-discipline

2) Support windsurfing for the Rio 2016 Olympics : get your sticker printed and pass around the world !

http://www.redsurfbus.com/2012/05/vo...ndsurfing.html

Cheers !

JM
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Old 4th June 2012, 03:26 PM   #25
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Here is the link to the report that "unregistered" was kindly talking about on another thread:

http://www.sailweb.co.uk/download/Ki...icalReport.pdf

ISAF Kiteboarding Format Trials Santander, Spain, March 21-25
Technical Report

Page 5 of 33:

"Performance:

Equipment can be launched in app. 3-4 knots of wind, depending on current, wind variety and surf.

Kiteboards can sail and be immediately on the plan from 4-5 knots.

GPS analysis showed the following speeds and angles in 6-9 knots:

Speed on the Beat: 15 knots or 8 1⁄2 minutes /nm
Speed on the Run: 23 knots or 4 minutes /nm
Speed on the Reach: 26 knots or 3 1⁄4 minutes /nm"

On the GPS recording shown as "proof", there is only 1 event with a Vmax peaking at 26 knots and maybe another one at Vmax 24 knots over a period of 2 hrs. Was the wind gusting at more than 9 knots during those 2 Vmax peaks? Where was the wind being measured : on the beach, on the course or at a nearby airport weather station ?

The "proofs" shown in the report are highly questionable to me simply because some of my kitesurf friends are unable to reproduce some of the miraculous claims made in this report on our home lake.

1) "Kiteboards can sail and be immediately on the plan from 4-5 knots". Yes, that is correct but only in true 5 knots winds with a Speed 3 Flysurf 21 m2 kite and a XXL Flydoor board (170cm x 50 cm) or a tube 22 m2 kite and a custom Kite Race board equipped with 2x 40 cm long race fins forward and 2x 36 cm long race fins on the back. Below 5 knots, it's swimming time and rescue boat help on our lake.
With a standard equipment (a basic twintip board), the wind limit is more like ±7 knots with an 18 m2 kite or ±10 knots with a 12-14 m2 kite. On par with a standard Formula Windsurfing equipment.

2) None of our group of 20+ kiters can reach a board speed that is equal to 3-4x that of the wind speed in winds below 9 knots. Only specifically designed large cats can do that on our lake, as explained below.

Furthermore, to claim that "The class polars show that kiteboarding is one of the most performant of all sailing classes, including the AC 45 and Extreme 40s" is overly measleading and represents a gross oversimplification of what the reality is on the water.

In 7 knots wind, a Decision 35 cat can reach a sustainable speed that is equal to 3x the wind speed on our home lake. In that same wind speed, the defunct Alinghi 5 mega cat was reaching a sustainable speed of 28-30 knots, i.e., 4x that of the wind speed. Sorry, I just don't buy that silly argument that "kiteboarding is one of the most performant of all sailing classes". Not true.

No wonders why windsurfing is out of the olympic games with such a blown-up-on-steroid report. Go figure...!

Cheers !

JM
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Old 11th June 2012, 08:33 PM   #26
Gyurmo
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hi,

i think this can help to understand more. the most important part for me the hope... there is a theoretical chance to reopen the voting in november.

rory ramsden, head of rs:x organization:

"2016: The fight back is on

Tuesday, 05 June 2012 08:58


There are probably a lot of questions running
through youyr mind right now. The important
thing is to stay positive and decide to do all you
can to help get windsurfing back into the 2016
Olympic sailing programme.


No doubt most of you have discovered the 'Vote Windsurfing' page on Facebook where news is being published as it happens together with the views of people like Bruce and Barbara Kendall and Nevin Sayre. For us, this is quick and easy to do as we focus on the main task of talking to the decision makers on the ISAF Council and within National Sailing Authorities round the world.

We are working hard in the back ground to build momentum within the general sailing community to redress this decision. Whilst we appreciate that there is a general feeling that kite should be in the Olympic sailing familly, we believe that there is an equally strong belief that windsurfing should be there too.

The question on everyone's mind is how we can fulfill both ambitions without impacting the ambitions of the other existing Olympic classes.

But what can you as a windsurfer do to help?

Here are 4 things that you can do to keep the campaign for Rio 2016 in the forefront of people's minds…

1. Sticker Campaign
This is a simple way to show your support as you go about your daily life. Stickers should be on cars, sails and in places where other sailors hang out when not racing. This is running in several countries already so start one too...

Print ready artwork is here http://bit.ly/JXaLdb

Please make sure that you have the permission of the person concerned before applying a sticker

2. Facebook Campaign
Please change your Facebook profile picture to the one on https://www.facebook.com/votewindsurfing Then every post you make will carry the message.

Here is the URL of the image: http://on.fb.me/L5sUXF

When changing the profile picture, add the petition URL in the comment field http://www.change.org/petitions/isaf...pic-discipline [ ask your friends to sign the petition too]

3. Writing Campaign
The other super useful thing that you can do is write to your MNA and urge them to support windsurfing for 2016
by voting to reopen the discussion in November at the ISAF Conference in Dublin.

4. Make a video
Please make a one minute video using an iPhone or similar saying why you think windsurfing should be in the
Olympics. That would make a powerful statement. The key is to keep it positive. Knocking kite is not what we want to do and will be counter productive.

5. Race the RS:X Youth Europeans and Worlds


There are two RS:X Youth Championships coming up.

The 2012 RS:X Open Youth Europeans in Estonia | June 30th - July 7th, Talinn

We have arranged for 30 hulls to be available for charter - bring your own rigs and foils -

Rates for the hull rent( without fin, with VAT and without insurance)

Bronze: 49 Euros( day)
Silver: 299 Euros( 1 day training and race days)
Gold: 499 Euros( 5 days training max and race days)

Young athletes will also have the opportunity to purchase the board after the event at - 30% of the retail price, in that case the rental cost will also be deducted.

Please register here: http://bit.ly/MwvF8i


Download the Notice of Race: http://bit.ly/MaIHBT

The 2012 RS:X Youth World Championships in Chinese Taipei | October 20th - 27th, Penghu Island

This is a key event for the RS:X class as it will take place just before the ISAF November Conference in Ireland. Even though we realise that European teams will take reduced teams due to distance, it is very important that
you register athletes in both the youth men and youth women's fleets.

Download the Notice of Race: http://bit.ly/Luy9Pk

By doing these 5 things, you will send a powerful message. Please keep what you say and what you post in public forums as positive FOR windsurfing as possible."
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Old 12th June 2012, 01:16 PM   #27
Darko_Z
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Default Kiters are not to blame that windsurfing is out of Olympics

Main demand from Olympic committee was that all sailing competitions should be made attractive for spectators. RS:X windsurfing shown on last Olympics games was far from attractive and exciting. Of course sailing in 3kn wind is not exciting.
Obviously changes were demanded but no changes were made to comply with new demands, so windsurfing is out.

Main argument to stick whit RS:X, was that there is a demand:
One board, one sail, one fin and 3kn wind.
Now kiters were accepted with:
One board, 3 kites, no restriction on fins and 7kn wind.

Formula experience could match this easily for less money than RS:X and kiting. But even with RS:X windsurfing would have chance if RS:X boards would be lighter and cheaper. Sometimes I still use 25 years old Klepper 320, no carbon fibers, weight is 16 kg. Weight of RS:X is 18 kg, many RS:X owners report that after year or two there were cracks on RS:X board so durability is no excuse for weight.

But perhaps there is still hope. Spanish Sailing Federation admits it mistakenly voted for kiting.
Check this link:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...227798,00.html
Instead of stickers and petitions make sure those delegates really now what they are voting about.

Considering numbers of people windsurfing and kiting, both should be on Olympics.
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Old 20th June 2012, 11:19 AM   #28
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Unhappy Reg (not yet)

Probably cos we cant spell !!!
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Old 20th June 2012, 05:27 PM   #29
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"Considering numbers of people windsurfing and kiting, both should be on Olympics.
11th June 2012 08:33 PM "

That is sheer nonesense.

90% of windsurfers have never raced and never will. Problem has always been the windsurfing in Olympics has virtually no resemblence whatsoever to the sport nearly all of us are involved with.

Racing is an esoteric small aspect of windsurfing.Olypic racing is a small part within that.

The image portrayed in olympic WS is probably detrimental . Its hardly exciting and does not attract anyone into the sport;unless they specifically want to race... WS racing in Olympics has become a sport in itself and promotes itself just for the Olypics.. Look at the farce over the RSX.. Who would ever dream of sailing one if were not for the Olypics !!! Crazy.. Its a circular argument.. IMO its the correct decision..
If we could get wave sailing in or even freestyle ; well that would be a step forward.
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Old 21st June 2012, 07:47 AM   #30
Gyurmo
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hi unregistered,

much smaller percent of car drivers of the world racing in Formula1 or in Rally, than percentage of windsurfers, who racing. and?

the influence of the top of a sport is always big. if a sail company's competitor win the pwa slalom tour, next year circa 30% can increase his sales volume of race/freerace sails. the freestyle or wave able to bring circa extra 10%.

the olympic windsurfing's value is huge number of people meet with windsurfing, who never meet with it any other way. the hungarian london olympic competitor girl's father is olympic bronz medalist sailor. he pushed her daughter not for sailing, but for windsurfing, because physically much more sporty and cheaper too.

the olympic games makes possible to get money from the states and teach kids for windsurfing. from these kids will be only one per nation on the olympic games, the rest will be hobby windsurfers, pwa riders, or from pwa will be olympic riders. lots of people who move from pwa to olympic (mainly girls), or move from olimpic to pwa like svein rasmussen, stephan van den berg, jimmy diaz, brian talma, anders bringdal, thomas malina, barbara kendal, alassandra sensini, jessica crisp, etc.

i think the olympic windsurfing has his mission in the windsurfing sport, just different from the pwa or hobby windsurfing.

cheers,
gyurmo
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