Go Back   Starboard Forums > Ask Our Team

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17th May 2007, 12:04 PM   #21
TG
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

Quote:
geo wrote:
I think that race rules limiting size to say 10.0 would not mean banning sales of 12.5 sails. You could always be using one at will. Of course, we may discover at that point that the market for such huge sails would shrink and maybe no one would produce them any longer. But that would be a different problem... after all, I just see the light again after years of good slalom materials being totally disregarded...
If we banned sails bigger than 10.0, there would be no races in most of the US, and elsewhere, nor would anybody make sails bigger than 11.0. Even lightweights use bigger sails than that.
TG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2007, 04:54 PM   #22
geo
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 327
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

Sorry I really meant 11.0, as suggested originally by Svein Rasmussen, of course.
Guess this would not change your opinion. Nevertheless the point in this discussion is that for most users and racers the need for 12.0 or more is a direct consequence of formula rules only and most would prefer a "dedicated light wind" smaller sail of no more than 11.0. Probably this would mean to trade some performance for use friendliness and lower costs, therefore making formula sailing/racing more appealing.
If this is not the point, then you're absolutely right.
geo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2007, 12:02 AM   #23
G-42
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 18
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

There's a FW class with its own set of rules - those are voted on by class members through a representative system at the AGM. So far, the class has resisted calls to limit sail sizes. You can speculate about why, but when I read this thread, I find that most posters who have strong opinions about the matter are not racing FW.

As an active FW racer, I find it ironic that others outside the class seem to have such an interest in the racing rules. It's for those inside the class to decide what game they want to play; considerations of making that game rewarding, as well as attracting others to it, will play into that decision process. But it's for those who are actually part of the class to make that decision. Input from others (such as Svein) will surely weigh in for many in the class, but again - the purpose of the class is to provide rewarding racing, not to benefit others outside in some way.

If the class goes wrong and makes itself so esoteric that participation dwindles, it's a sign that something went wrong. If the class waters down the racing and makes is so unrewarding that numbers dwindle, ... - you get the picture.

Time will tell - I just find it amusing that all these non-racers are ratcheting up the volume on this.

One more thing - someone made a comment earlier that surely the purpose of race gear development should be to create a trickle-down effect for recreational users. I call BS on that - the purpose of racing is competition. The purpose of developing gear for competition is to raise the level of performance. Classes make their own decisions on weighing cost and accessibility vs. performance.

FW is a great class for people like me who love to race, and love high-performance sailing. Light wind slalom bores me to death (note that I love slalom the way it's meant to be - high-wind). If I'm competing in 12 knots of breeze, I'd rather course race on Formula gear, as that's plenty exciting, plus tactical - it's simply a more interesting game to play than light air slalom for me. That's me - and that's my decision. Lots of people make those decisions, and as a result, you'll have participants enter one thing or another.

Getting hundreds of people on the line is cool. You can do that with 'everyman's' figure 8 courses. Or with Laser races. FW is NOT that - it's about all-out performance in a wide range of conditions, along with real tactics. Different game, and probably a different group of people playing it.

-Andreas
http://g-42.blogspot.com
G-42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2007, 01:00 AM   #24
G
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 143
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

I totally agree with you Adreas.
G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2007, 01:11 AM   #25
geo
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 327
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

Andreas,

not a racer as I said, not interested in FW racing and probably never will be; I am just talking about logic. And logic is not given for racers only.
You touched the point: FW is for FW insiders. You make your rules and are happy with them, others may join, or may not. I guess that what Svein Rasmussen was saying is that huge sails size limit could be keeping some people out of FW, that some might quit because of it and that someone else may be unhappy with it. Maybe a slightly smaller size limit would result in more appeal to FW with little enough performance loss. Maybe. And, by sure this time, more appeal to a racing class would lead to more people windsurfing, which is Svein's main concern. It seems logical to me, just that.

As for race gear development resulting on trickling down of some innovations to non racing gear, that is not the intended purpose of racing, but it is a matter of fact anyhow.
geo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2007, 04:53 AM   #26
TG
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

FW does push the boundaries of WS in a particular direction--it's an extreme part of an extreme sport. And not everyone needs do do it. But the joys of fast upwind/downwind sailing are there. , and they're unique.

Just as modern freestyle pushes the sport in a different way--I don't even know what some of that stuff those guys are doing is, but I like that they do it, just the same.
TG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2007, 09:49 AM   #27
Nathan
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

Maybe this is your answer, start or join Formula Experience events

Formula Experience Class Rules
subject to ISAF confirmation
(effective 1st April 2005)

4. Sail

4.1 The size and construction of the sail shall be optional

Youth and seniors: 11.0 Sq.m.: A maximum of 7 full width battens are permitted. The number of additional leach battens is free provided the length of each is not more than 25% of the distance from the leach to the luff along the centre line of the batten. A maximum of 3 cambers are permitted.

Nathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2007, 01:28 PM   #28
Doby
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 26
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

Andreas, when FW started it was billed "the class for everyone" now everyone can racr with only one board and 3 sails. FW could have been that but see what happened. Most people were scared by the huge sails. Myself I bought 2 brand new sails a 10.2 and 8.5 and an AHD Daimond 72 the first year of the FW class. Next year I stopped because my gear was out of date. Never went back....
Doby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2007, 01:55 PM   #29
TG
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

Quote:
Doby wrote:
Andreas, when FW started it was billed "the class for everyone" now everyone can racr with only one board and 3 sails. FW could have been that but see what happened. Most people were scared by the huge sails. Myself I bought 2 brand new sails a 10.2 and 8.5 and an AHD Daimond 72 the first year of the FW class. Next year I stopped because my gear was out of date. Never went back....
I agree with that.

That's what killed Slalom in the first place too--the arms race. The industry solution seems always to be to create another class, not fix what we have. Formula Ex, is a great example. Shouldn't be needed at all if we'd kept to the FW concept in the first place.

I will say though, that the arms race has slowed somewhat--the first years of FW saw some needed and radical changes, but now they're incremental. I suspect a 2004 Starboard 158 is still competative in the right hands, with the right fin (if it hasn't fallen apart). Slalom gear hasn't changed much in years and years--iPods --I mean-- iSonics or whatever, the latest hype, not withstanding.
TG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2007, 05:04 PM   #30
Remi
STARBOARD DEVELOPMENT
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Thailand
Posts: 2,436
Default RE: Stop Formula XXL Sails!

Hi TG,

THe FE is exacltly the solution to your problems :

3 times cheaper and still have very good performances, but yes less than FW. And the equipment is lock until january 2010. With this class who is more accesible to everyone, you have differents contries who can do Formula. With out this class that will be impossible.

So is perfect to have very high level in FW particulary in senior class and FE for beguiner and all people who want have pleasure at a resonable cost. FE is a very good step to FW. Both class will win a lot like this.

For the F158 is completly out of the game compare to all the Formula Windsurfing you can found on the market right now. The big difference is in light wind and strong wind.

Slalom equipment change a lot since 3 years, and come back in competition with the new rules F42, because whe can plane earlier, so less race are cancell now. Organiser can invest again in slalom and this is really excellent.

The important point is to satisfy everybodies from beguiner to really high level.

All the best
__________________
Remi

Can answer if you have any questions on this following boards :

Carve 111, 121, 131, 141, 151 & 161
Futura 93, 101, 111, 121, 131 & 141.
iSonic 80, 87, 90, 97, 107, 110, 117 & 130
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

UltraSonic 147
Formula Experience One Design
Phantom Race 377 & 377 L / 320
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Phantom 295 L :
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Formula 167 :
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Racing Serinity Cat Concept
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Remi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 01:57 PM.