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Old 8th May 2007, 12:09 PM   #1
Jay
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Default Serenity questions

Does anyone know (or can anyone measure) the thickness of the Serenity (ie, if placed flat on the floor, how much overhead clearance is needed, fin not included)? I am thinking of buying one but want to be sure I've got enough room for storage on my board rack.

Also, regarding sailing the Serenity, I've heard it can be fairly tricky. I'm an early intermediate windsurfer (ie, I'm either a superb beginner or a lousy intermediate) and I never particularly had great balance, so I'm curious how hard it is for average (mediocre) sailors to balance during uphauling, sailing, and gybing assuming they can get along OK on a conventional light air short board or a transitional board?

Thanks!

Jay
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Old 8th May 2007, 03:56 PM   #2
Jean-Marc
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Jay,

The median thickness is 18 cm.

Balance for uphauling : easy (the big 70 cm fin kind of dampens the sideway rolling of the hull)
Balance for sailing : easy (pointing, reach, deep reach). Delicate/tipy (downwind) for an intermediate.
Balance for jibing : delicate/tipy for an intermediate.
Balance for tacking : easy.

Cheers !

JM
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Old 9th May 2007, 03:09 AM   #3
Jay
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Jean-Marc -

Thanks for that input. I didn't quite understand what you meant by "median" thickness - I was looking for "max thickness", ie, total overhead height required for cleanrance - is that what you meant?

Great input on the balance, thanks, that's just what I was looking for.

A few other questions if you've got the time -

On my lake there are lots of power boats, some quite large, and they can make pretty big wakes. When I kayak (without a rudder) there is a strong tendency for the kayak hull to align itself parallel with wakes. Since the Serenity hull is very similar to a kayak hull, when riding in 5 - 10 mph winds on a body of water where you encounter boat wakes how does the Serenity behave?

Is it likely to "twist" in the same way or does the fin and tail shape let it track better than my kayak?

With little wind to balance against I'm also wondering if you're more likely to get thrown off the board on good sized boat wakes?

Do most people sail the Serenity in 5 - 10 mph winds without a harness (I would think so but I'm asking because I someone mentioned using one in light winds on a prior thread and that confused me). At what wind strength does a harness become desireable (I would guess maybe 10-12 with an 8 to 10 m2 sail)? I would think that unlike a planing hull which "frees up" once you pass the planing threshold (so the pull in your arms actually decreases initially with increasing wind), with the Serenity this never happens so at some point even in non-planing wind the harness might be nice to let you relax your upper body.

Thanks again,

Jay
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Old 9th May 2007, 04:39 AM   #4
James
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Hi Jay- I sailed the Serenity for a while at a demo event so I'm not a great expert or anything, but I think I can answer your questions.

The wakes won't be a problem. As long as you are moving the board will cut through them without twisting.

You could probably benefit from a harness even in light winds. Being able to relax your arms will help you focus on trimming the board with your feet. When I tried the serenity it was very responsive in terms of both speed and turning to how I angled it side-to-side with my feet. Foot steering is like it is on a longboard with the daggerboard down- you lean it the opposite way to turn than you would on a shortboard.

I think you will really enjoy the board.
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Old 9th May 2007, 05:34 AM   #5
Jean-Marc
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Jay,

The max thickness at 50% hull's lenght (median point, mid-point, half lenght, etc...) is 18 cm.

Didn't try it with wakes produced from traffic, sorry. I tried in 4-8 knots of wind, i.e., from ultra flat glassy water without any ripples up to 10-20 cm deep and short-period chop. The nose slices throught chop like a hot knive throught butter without the hull being disturbed. The long and narrow 455 cm lenght coupled with the 70 cm deep daggerfin does provide a pretty amount of inertia against any turning change IMHO (the hull is easier to tack or jibe with the shallower 41 cm fin BTW). Rolling of the hull could be a far more important issue as it is far easier to do, so wakes or small waves can play a role in stabilty here, but as I said above, I can't really comment on how the hull behaves in more challenging/demanding water conditions (not tested yet).

To me, the harness was necessary as of 4 knots of wind because when hull's speed increased, the enhancing apparent wind did also increase the wind force into my big 10.6 sail. Also, I did set up my sail with minimal downhaul (-2 cm) and outhaul (-6 cm; upper third eyelet) to make its draft as deep as possible (sail touching the boom all the way; boom height up to chest level, seat harness with low hook, long harness lines). This made the sail very powerfull and the harness was indeed precious even in 4 knots of wind to save energy when I was overpowered in 8 knots...! So, my best advice so far is do wear a harness all the time: better safe than sorry...

However, as I didn't try it with a smaller sail yet, I can't comment whether a harness will be necessary or not with say a 8.x sail or less, but I do think so because of the enhancing apparent wind speed.

Cheers !

JM
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Old 9th May 2007, 05:41 AM   #6
Jean-Marc
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Default RE: Serenity questions

...

Sorry, I forgot to say that for an intermediate, I would definitely NOT recommend about using a 10 m2 sail : the largest the sail, the tippiest the Serenity will become, especially downwind and during jibing transition. Better use a 7.5 or 6.5 sail for your skills and abilities, I'm sure it will be much more fun and enjoyable.

JM
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Old 9th May 2007, 06:12 AM   #7
Randy
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Default RE: Serenity questions

I've sailed my Serenity 16 times now, mostly in pretty flat water. Over the weekend I did sail in some heavier boat chop. If you are moving pretty well, its not too much of an issue. However, I did notice a few times that it will tend to change your direction. I usually try to ride the chop, sail down it if possible - it can be fun. I expect the chop at my local spot will get a lot worse this summer, so I'll be interested in seeing how it does. Overall, I was encouraged this weekend. I am recovering from bashing my knee on the mast on one of my shortboards, so I didn't want to try to make any quick movements, which might have helped counter the chop. Right now, the only board I can sail is Serenity, because getting into the straps puts too my pressure on my knee.

As for a harness, I always wear it, even in light wind. It does make it less tiring.
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Old 9th May 2007, 06:32 AM   #8
rod_r
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Default RE: Serenity questions

I think what Jay wanted to know was the highest part of the serenity above the flat surface it is sitting on. Looking at the pictures, that point would appear to be the front tip where it points upward?
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Old 9th May 2007, 11:37 AM   #9
Roger
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Hi Jay,
The Serenity will go between the racks in my trailer either bow first or stern first, but it works better stern first.
The rack bars are 7.50" (19.5 cm) apart with a thin carpet layer on both the top and bottom.
If you are asking what height down from a fixed surface (like from a ceiling) I'll have to measure that.
I'll need to stretch a string from the high point on the bow to the high point on the stern.
As far as slicing through boat wakes, the Serenity will cut through boat wakes and chop like a hot knife through butter.
If a wake catches you from the side, you will be OK if you are moving, less OK if not moving.
Everyone here seems to be talking HUGE sails and the abominable wide blade 70 cm fin that comes with the board.
I've sailed the Serenity with sails as small as 4.2 m2 (Sailworks Hucker) in foot high chop and 25 knots (G 30).
I've also sailed it with a 9.0 m2, but it's best with a 6.5-8.5 m2 rig.
My favorite (due to being very light weight and very powerful) is the Severne Glide 7.5 (pretty much designed specifically for boards like the Serenity).
I've always worn a harness as it makes setting the rail on the Serenity much easier and takes all the forces from the rig a puts them on the big muscles in the hips and thighs, increasing your endurance and time on the water by a couple of magnitudes.
Yes, for very light winds, you need to set the lines rather long, but with a harness, there's no need for the sailor to "hold the rig up" with hands and arms, but rather the hands and arms become the "adjusters" to optimize sheeting angle etc.
As far as the big fin, I rarely use it.
I've found that it really doesn't decrease the roll rate when the board is standing still with no way on.
It also has the nasty habit of being nice and stable when loaded up in one direction (lee rail down a bit to go upwind) but as it comes back through "neutral" when jibing, the big fin "bites" all at once (seemingly no matter how carefully you "transition" through vertical with no side load on the fin), and if your aren't real careful, and ready for it to "bite" you'll end up in the water beside the board.
I'm thinking about having a 60-65 cm fin made up with about 3-5 lbs of lead at the bottom. That would definitely decrease the static roll rate.
I've found very nearly the same upwind angle can be obtained with smaller 48-60 cm fins or weed fins in the 32-52 cm range.
Yes, you might lose a degree or 2 in upwind angle, but with a smaller rig, and smaller fin, you get alot less from factor drag, so better VMG overall, especially in really light winds.
Hoping to find the time to run some GPS tests this summer to prove
objectively what I'm getting subjectively.
If I were racing the Serenity around a course, against other Serenity boards, then I might want the huge 70 cm wide blade fin.
For recreational sailing, I find the board to be faster and plenty stable with smaller fins.
Hope this helps,
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Old 9th May 2007, 01:12 PM   #10
Jay
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Default RE: Serenity questions

Hey everyone, thanks you guys have such great input. You really know how to get someone stoked!

Roger, you guessed right, the only spot I have to store the Serenity is at the top of my rack right up against the ceiling - that's why I wanted to know the max height - so if you do get a chance to measure that I would be really grateful!

I had no idea the board could be fun with the smaller sails. It still would be fun to try it with bigger sails, though (although maybe I'll give up on that idea once I try it and fail miserably).

Also, great input on fin size. I don't have a problem with weeds where I sail so I wouldn't typically get weed fins. Assuming I stuck with regular fins, what you you say is the ideal intermediate size fin to suppliment the 70 + 41 cm fins that come with the board - split the difference at 55 cm?

Very cool idea about a custom ballasted fin! Are you thinking of adding a small lead bulb to the end of a commercial fin? That might have a bit more drag then a lead sandwich but would have maximum righting moment. If you make a ballasted fin please post your results (with a picture)!

Jay
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