Old 24th May 2007, 05:26 PM   #11
Ian Fox
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

Actually Roger is probably well suited to add input on the Serenity sail discussion, as he has a lot of time on Serenity and also with Sailworks product. I figure he's enjoyed the Glide as well.
I'll ping him over here.


Having experienced a fair range of different Serenitys myself, I would add that most of the dings come from two sources :
1> the boom front end (boom bra not my scene, but in this case wellsuited to minimise impact damage, however just a minor amount of care when falling in the early stages (and yes, you will fall ) can also help guide the fall of the rig in such a way as to minimise the chance of boom impact damage. Simply guiding (or dragging with you) the rig a little as you go in will go a long way to prevent to floaty, no wind flutter rotation that more often than not (if unchecked) seems to want to swing the rig around nicely to strike a nose or tail section.

2>At close to 15ft, the Serenity is a sure candidate to get some easy "swing" dings when the board is being carried, handled or stored off the water. These modern days, we just aren't used to handling the same lengths of yesteryear - take a simple old one pc mast and go for a small walk around your garage etc with it, just watch how many things you hit ! Swinging a Serenity around off the water needs double care, or BAM!!!

Damage of this nature seems equally distributed over both construction types in Serenity, and there certainly doesn't seem a trend of one being more vulnerable than the other in this form of damage. There is no doubt the extra light weight of the Wood is very attractive on the water in this type of sailing - and yes, considering the internal (foam) volume weight to be saved, I did seriously propose a hollow one and, no, it won't be in the 2008 line.

As for the sail, my choice (from the full range in the test centre) is the Glide over the other nocam or few-cam freerides (like NCX, (E)lement etc - and I figure Retro etc).
Jay says in nicely in "power to weight" terms, that thing can't be beat, and the reality is you mostly want around 9m of power, but with the weight of a 7m. Glide sets up nicely with a moderate tight leech and reasonably full foil shape on a light mast with moderate downhaul (ideal for Serenity sweetspot range), cams on rigging are a snap (pun) and on water are an advantage to ultimate sail range but potentially a bit hazardous in tippy conditions when tacking - in light or no wind. The "pop" effort to rotate even easy cams can be enough to pump you right off the board. A simple technicque resolves that; as you exit the tack etc oversheet/pump with the backhand only as you pull the sail in initially, the Glide will swing around onto the new tack and off you go. Initially with the Serenity, the Glide may not be as standout as c/w other sails, but as your experience progresses and the adventure widens, the benefits of the better sail also outweigh any disadvantage.

Glide would also be a useful quiver advantage for light wind slalom etc.

There is no doubt the Glide remains a pricey sail, a direct result of the expensive hi performance e3 cloth used throughout that sail exclusively, which is a major contributor to the overall result - both on the water and at the $checkout. In many ways you could consider it similar to carbon booms; pricey and non essential - but use one and it gets difficult to go back !

Cheers ~ Ian
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Old 24th May 2007, 09:52 PM   #12
Roger
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

Hi Ian,
I wasn't aware of the price of the Glide 7.5 m2 as the one I have came from the Trade Show and as been through a couple of 2 week and 3 month board/sail tests by the US and Canadian Magazines.
But, (and Bruce P. will probably shoot me for saying this) the Glide has become my favorite for <12 knots on the Serenity and Apollo, for exactly the reasons you state, and in exactly the same way "pricey and non essential - but use one and it gets difficult to go back !"
I have larger and smaller Sailworks NX formula and NX slalom 4 cam rigs, and with the "cam kickers&#39; installed, they rotate far more smoothly than the Glide so I use them fairly often as well. I also use the Retro 7.5 and 8.5 m2 frequently, just to test the fell, angle and speed of them against the NX&#39;s and Glide.
The 7.5 Glide I have rigs on an Itallica/Severne 100% carbon mastg, and I&#39;ve discovered I have an older WS Hawaii carbon boom that&#39;s super light and fits the Glide rig perfectly, bringing the overall weight down to around a 6.0-6.5 Retro on a 75% Joystick.
The power of an 8.5-9.0 m2 rig, with the weight of a 6.0-6.5 rig makes an awesome combination that like you say, once you&#39;ve sailed it, it&#39;s very hard to go back.
I think that the *bd design team might want to make up a combination of the Jez&#39;s knob to deflect the mast and boom head as well as a multi-density nose protector pad for the Serenity.
My demo board now has dings both where the boom head comes down and back on the rear deck about the same distance from the mast foot. Not hard to repair, and the WOOD construction of my Serenity has been remarkable, but still kinda ugly on such a beautiful wood board.
Hope this helps,
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Old 25th May 2007, 02:25 AM   #13
Jay
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

Ian, that was fantastic input, thanks !

I was under the impression Technora wouldn&#39;t be damaged as easily as wood in boom head strikes. I&#39;m surprised to hear you are suggesting that they are about equal. If that&#39;s the case, I&#39;m more likey to buy wood for the lighter weight.

Thanks also for your input on the Glide, very helpful.

Roger, thanks also for your fine input.

Do you know if there is anywhere in the US to buy a Jez knob to protect the Serentiy (I"ve only seen them for sale overeas)?

I appreciate your sharing all your comparative sailing with different rigs, very nice! Would I be right in guessing that a comparably sized NX (rigged with a bit less DH to tighten the leech and a bit bagged OH for max draft) weighs 10 - 20% more than the Glide and develops 10-20% less power than the Glide?

Your suggestion of a Jez knob and some foam would seem to be the way to protect the foredeck/nose. What do you suggest as a way to protect the "aft deck"?

Jay
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Old 25th May 2007, 02:41 AM   #14
Jay
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

Ian and Roger,

This may be a slightly whacky idea but I thought I&#39;d bring it up in case it has some potential value in relation to the question I posed in my immediately preceeding post about how to protect the aft deck of the Serenity from boom strikes.

Why not construct some kind of small inflatable or high density foam "doughnut" which would fit on the mast base to act as a 360 degree cushion? It would basically sit on the mast foot (kind of like how a mast foot volcano pad is fitted, but instead of being flat foam it would be doughnut or cylindrically shapped (like a small baloon tire circling the mast foot and bast base). It might soften blows enough to prevent damage and eliminate the need for a Jez knob and other pads. It would also be relatively light and out of the way and not hurt your toes like deviators or Jez knobs can and wouldn&#39;t "catch" when trying to move the sail across the board. No glueing pads to the decks (both ugly and hides potential damage). Could be put on for beginners or tough conditions and taken off other times.
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Old 25th May 2007, 06:59 PM   #15
Randy
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

Quote:
Jay wrote:
Ian, that was fantastic input, thanks !

Do you know if there is anywhere in the US to buy a Jez knob to protect the Serentiy (I"ve only seen them for sale overeas)?

Jay
I got mine from Chuck (of recent fame for his Windsurfing Magazine article) at Whitecap:

http://www.whitecapwindsurfing.com/

I&#39;m not sure if he still carries them, but may be able to tell you how to get one.

BTW - one great feature of Serenity, which would be nice to see in everyboard is the fin box. Its the only tuttle box I&#39;ve ever had where the screws go straight into the fin. No fooling around for what seems like an eternity trying to get the screws in when you are anxious to sail!
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Old 26th May 2007, 04:28 PM   #16
Jean-Marc
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

Jay,

To protect the aft deck from boom strikes, a boom bra on the tail end piece of the boom should do it. However, when uphauling the sail on the wrong tack, the tail boom&#39;s tubes are dragging over the aft deck and are drawing nice arc marks on the paint (more accurately, it&#39;s the big and chunky double push pin holder of my X7 boom which is leaving marks on the paint)...I guess a foam tube covering the boom tail tubes like those used to insulate pipes should protect the aft deck, may be ?

Some differences between Technora and Wood Serenity I&#39;ve experienced so far:

1) wood is lighter when handling the board off/on the car roof&#39;s racks and on the beach;
2) while sailing, it&#39;s very hard to notice an obvious difference in weight saving;
3) while sailing, the wood is crisper, more nervous and more rigid than the Technora. There is much less vibrations of the nose when skimming the top of chop/wakes as if the wood has a better dampening effect on the longitudinal axis.

Cheers !

JM

PS : first 2 sessions with the woody "Splinter" :
http://mytrims.com/mytrims/trim4.asp?trimID=18826
http://mytrims.com/mytrims/trim4.asp?trimID=18837
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Old 27th May 2007, 02:00 PM   #17
Jay
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

JM,

Thanks for your input on protecting the aft deck and on wood vs Technora.

I never thought of putting a boom bra on the tail piece - only drawback is the added weight where I least want it (on the clew). Scratches on such a beautiful board are to be avoided, but I got the impression from prior posts that structural damage could be done there similar to what can occur on the foredeck (I&#39;m assuming from boom head rather than boom tail) - and that is what I would be more concerned about. The only thing that would detract from my enjoyment of the board is if it&#39;s too easy to damage the deck and then I need to take it a long distance for a good repair (no local board repair people where I live). Not having had a prior wood board I just am not sure how damage prone it really is (not only from a dropped rig but also about possible damage from my harness hook when climbing back aboard since I won&#39;t be waterstarting this board).

Regarding wood, less vibration in chop sounds very nice but I&#39;m not sure I understand why - I would expect a stiffer platform to damp less not more...

Overall, are you happy paying the premium for wood?

Congradulations on getting your new board, glad you&#39;re enjoying it.
I tried to open your pics (thanks for the links) but when trying to open I get a PW protected log-in screen. Any other way for me to see the pics?

Jay
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Old 28th May 2007, 01:30 AM   #18
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

for sails you might look at www.demonsails.co.uk.
they do a pretty awesome longboard racing sail, all the longboard guys in the UK use them- they win everything in racing.
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Old 28th May 2007, 03:32 AM   #19
Jean-Marc
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

Jay,

OK, for climbing back on board, I try to sit first on deck to avoid the harness hook dinging the hull (both hand on hull or between hull and mast). Very happy by paying the premium for the woody edition (and the protective board bag).

Yes, you&#39;re right, more rigid with less dampening amplitude, sorry...

For access to mytrims, you&#39;ll need to register, unfortunately. You might access as a "guest" but I can&#39;t remember how. No need to register to watch 2 pics with a pal of 98 kg/ 2 m tall having a quick spin in ± 5 knots of wind : http://mytrims.com/gallery/

Cheers !

JM
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Old 28th May 2007, 02:12 PM   #20
Jay
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Default RE: 2008 Serenity

JM,

Thanks for the pics, very nice. Also I logged onto Mytrims - very nice site. I appreciated reading about your sessions including your setup and impressions of your first two sessions. I noticed you were using a 10.6 sail. That may have made the board even more challenging. Roger has stated that going that big may not be necessary even in very light winds. My experience with a 10.5 is that it if fine with the right amount of wind (ie, planing but not totally overpowered) but can actually be harder (more effort) with too little too wind than a smaller sail. Since the Serenity is harder to balance on than a wider board (like a Kona) I&#39;m guessing with little wind to balance against you are vertical over the board and therefore must hold the sail relatively close to you to (which I think can be a bit awkward on a tippy board). I will be interested in you experience comparing a smaller sail (ie, 7.5-8.5) to your 10.6 to see if you also decide that the bigger sail may not be necessary.

I was also interested to hear that the board was easier to go downwind and gybe with your feet more forward.

Regarding getting on the board and avoiding the harness hook - do you pull yourself up facing the board and twist 180 degrees at the last second?

In your comments you mentioned the board was fun and challenging in only 7-8 kts and definitely not for a beginner. I&#39;m certainly not a beginner but my balance is not the best (ie, I often fall when trying to tack a shortboard) - do you have any suggestion how I may be able to predict whether I&#39;m a good candidate for the Serenity or whether it&#39;s a bit too challenging for me (I suspect I&#39;m up to it but I&#39;d hate to buy it and then find out it&#39;s harder than I expected).

Thanks!

Jay
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