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Old 27th July 2007, 12:39 AM   #21
HappyHappyJoyJoy
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

"chest cracked"... oh my... Good luck, really. We'll be waiting for you to come back.
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Old 29th July 2007, 02:23 PM   #22
Jay
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Roger,

My thoughts and prayers are with you for a speedy and full recovery!
Once you recover I bet you WILL feel 20 years younger and you'll take your windsurfing to an entirely new level! Thank goodness we live in a time and place where aortic stenosis can be diagnosed early and treated effectively with some of the best technology and talent available anywhere in the world. Had we lived only 100 years ago this would not have been possible...

Thanks, also, Roger for the additional input on my questions.
Regarding the fin, yes, when I referred to the "fin tilted to windward" I meant the fin tip in relation to the fin root.
Regarding the "sheeting with the shoulders", no, I didn't mean using the arms - what I meant was that with the hips turned forwards the only way keep the sail sheeted in with the harness is to rotate the torso and shoulders outwards (parallel with the sail). You're pointers on how to handle the gusts and lulls were very well stated, thanks.

Best of luck to you Roger for a quick and easy recovery. No forward loops until you're fully healed, even if you feel like it, please!

Jay

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Old 29th July 2007, 04:42 PM   #23
Finn
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Hi Roger and all,

Roger, I really hope you'll have a swift recovery and I’m sure you will be back with full force.

I have an additional question concerning the “setting” of the hips in relation to different types of harnesses. I have access to both a waist harness and to a seat harness. Usually I use the former since it is easier to hook in/out, but the few times I have managed to hook in the latter ok it seems to be more effective.

I have not yet tried it out but I imagine that it might be more difficult to “set the hips” with the seat harness than with the waist harness and/or that one have to work with slightly different angels (hips-board) with different types of harnesses. Or is that a unwarranted worry?

All the best!

Finn
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Old 29th July 2007, 10:33 PM   #24
Roger
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Hi Jay and Finn,
For Jay... Thanks for the kind words... it really helps as this is the first time I'll have ver been in a hospital for more than one day. Frankly it scares me a bit. No worries about the looping too soon. I've never been able to loop in my entire WS career (at least not on purpose )
so no worries there.
For Finn,
Yes, a seat harness is a bit more effective for larger sails and slalom sailing.
you can still rotate your hips with either type of harness, so that part works.
I was out yesterday on the Isonic 145 and Apollo and paying very close attention to what I was doing to change the board from across the wind to upwind. I'm going to try to do the same thing this afternoon and see if there are any things I need to add.
I've been doing it for so long, that I need to recognise exactly what it is that I do.
Yesterdays analysis seemed to suggest that "seetihg the hips" is less important than liftign with the front foot (which controls the roll angle).
But, I don't think you can effectively roll the board with the sail fully raked back and sheeted in without "setting your hips" at a different angle than your upper body.
What it feels like is that you are sailing along on a beam rach with good speed and then without changing your upper body position, or the rake/sheeting angle of the rig, you pull up and out with the front foot and increase the pressure across the top of the fin with your rear foot.
Upper body and rig stay the same, but the board rools slightly to leeward (due to lifting and pulling upwind with the front foot) and you push quite hard across the top of the fin to get it to max. horizontal lift and keep it there.
So, the description still fits as what you are doing is basically twisting the board (relaitve to the rig and your upper body) so the nose kinda pulls upwind and you push the tail away with the back foot over the top of the fin.
Board changes course to much higher upwind without losing much speed and you are then sailing upwind completely on the lift from the fin.
Hope this makes sense.
I may have more later this evening if the wind ever comes up.
R
P.S. and Finn thanks for your kind words as well.
It's alot better going into something like a "valve job" on one's heart when you know there are lots of sailors out there pulling for your full recovery.
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Old 1st August 2007, 02:43 PM   #25
Jay
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Default RE: Problems going upwind

Roger,

The key thing is to be sure you really have confidence in your surgical team and center. Good cardiac surgery centers do so many of these and much more complex procedures that they really have them dialed. I think it is safe to say that this kind of surgery is now more science than art because the techniques are so highly refined. You can ask your surgeon about their statistics on how many of these procedures they have done and how many people have had complications. You will likely be amazed at how low the complication rate is. Once you're confident you are in good hands, then I suggest you do your best to have a positive attitude about your outcome. I believe studies have shown that people with a positive attitude and lower stress do better after surgery and recover quicker. We're pulling for you, Roger!

By the way, back to the topic of this thread, I was out yesterday on my FT158 in 12-15 mph wind and tried your suggestions. WOW. Your input was right on the mark and quite simple to implement. I"ve never planed upwind like that in relative comfort and control. By lifting/pulling with the front foot and pushing across the fin with the rear foot I was effectively "scissoring" the board upwind; I think the setting the hips allowed me to do that without disturbing the sail (other than slightly increasing it's rake slightly as I leaned a bit more forward in the gusts). It was fun doing "S-curves" upwind, footing off a bit in the lulls and pointing higher in the gusts, all via scissoring. Roger, you are the best, thanks so much for helping me experience that thrill!

Jay
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Old 27th August 2007, 04:59 PM   #26
marek
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Hi, this is the thread exactly on topic for me. I'm on an F-type 148 and 10.0 NS Daytona or 7.5 Gaastra Matrix. My weight is 90kg/200lbs.

I managed to get into both straps recently on my 10.0 and it felt great, however I still haven't discovered the upwind potential of my FT :-(. I can barely stay on a beam reach and the other guys are always zipping back and forth way upwind from me. I followed all the previous threads about going upwind on Formula/FT boards and I know I have to push across the fin, however this makes it difficult to sheet in the sail at the same time + the front foot feels like it is going out of the strap when I try to pull it (straps in the outer position - 1 (middle?)). I guess I have to try the trick with the hips, but any more advices are highly recommended.

Thanks,

-marek

P.S. I am also starting a new thread about the 7.5 sail replacement recommendation.
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Old 29th August 2007, 06:37 AM   #27
MartinJE
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Hi Marek

I sail an FT158 with a Naish Stealth 9.6 @ 80-85kg.

Try lifting the toes of your front foot to hook the strap to keep from popping out. If you're seriously imbalanced (being twisted to the rear) check your harness line balance (shift to the rear?) and/or sail draft (too over-powered?). Dropping the boom 1-2cm also helps to give more front foot pressure.

For upwind: pushing over the top of the fin shouldn't make sheeting-in more difficult, but easier as you can straighten the leg to get more power. Make sure you are rolling the lee rail down some to get the fin-tip tracking up wind.

Is the sail raked back enough (closing the slot - with a "race" sail)?

Try twisting the heel of your rear foot forward in the strap (I set the strap with the rear screw in the rear most plug, and the front screw in the middle plug - I wear booties all year and this setting allows me to pivot my foot in the strap to shift balance fore-aft), and swing your weight in the harness forward - you'll read "trying to look round in front of the mast" - keep the rig raked back! Keep the fin pressure on, and hook/scissor the front foot to windward.

Try and relax your upper body as much as possible; don't over-sheet and stall the rig (lose power); and, if not over powered, keep any weight in your toes of the back foot.

Hope some of this helps - Martin
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Old 29th August 2007, 03:56 PM   #28
marek
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Thanks Martin, I'll try your tips.

Funny thing, I talked to 2 Formula guys I know (one is a former pro) and both of them were kind of joking about lifting the front foot and pushing on the fin which is so emphasized here on this forum.
One said he just rakes the sail all the way to the back, and the pro said I should just lean forward (so this sort of matches what you guys say) and don't push on the fin or I'll catch a spinout.
And they both sail upwind no problem.

Anyway, I'm going to use the advices from you guys, it's just sometimes confusing when different folks on the local spot tell you different things :-(.

-marek
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Old 29th August 2007, 06:00 PM   #29
Roger
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Hi Marek,
I think, when you get a bit of experience with the techniques we are suggesting here, you will be sailing upwind with these semi and former pro formula sailors and then you will see that they indeed use the same (or something very similar with the same dynamic) techniques to go upwind as well. They've probably never analyzed how they do it, but they sure know how to do it. Biggest giveway when watching them will be the upward curve of the front foot toes. It's very hard to push down and curl your toes up at the same time.
Hope this helps,
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Old 30th August 2007, 05:52 AM   #30
MartinJE
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Hi Marek

It's quite difficult to spinout these deep fins ... but:

If you "stamp" on the fin loading it can spinout - load-up gradually;

If you try and load the fin before there's enough speed it can spin out - it's very tempting to try and claw back to windward as soon as you can on the new tack, but let the board bear-off to get the speed - then apply the techniques and load-up!

Good luck - Martin
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