Old 30th August 2007, 06:30 PM   #31
marek
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 95
Default

Roger, good to see you back.
If you have a chance, could you also take a look at my 7.5 sail replacement thread on the Free Forum?

http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?p=14204

Thanks!

-marek
marek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2007, 02:54 AM   #32
marek
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 95
Thumbs up

Hi,

Just wanted to report back, that I started to make progress upwind .
I think an important part of it is that I feel more comfortable with speed and can concentrate more on my stance, etc. Before that I was just trying to survive and every time the board going onto the plane was like a big Wooaa.

Other than that, I keep the board flat, keep leaning forward a lot and ride the fin with my back foot (great feeling). Have to figure out the part with lifting my front foot without getting it out of strap.

Also, funny thing, I find it more difficult to get into a correct planing stance if I initiate a plane being hooked in (especially in a quick way when a gust is comming) - seems to be more difficult to lean to the side after being on plane and rake the sail back - I sometimes end up in water behind the board, with tha sail on me.
It seems to be easier when I just unhook, make few pumps, get on plane and lean to the side with my sail raked back (I find it easier not being limited by the harness lines) and hook in at the same time.
I was wondering if anybody has the same problem or do you have any suggestions on how to fix it as it seems to require more power than just doing that in the harness.

Thanks Roger and everybody,

-marek

P.S. I also figured that my FT makes way much greater progress upwind when not planing if I stay hooked in and keep my feet light, providing just enough pressure on my back foot.

P.S.2. Another interesting thing from today's session - somebody on my local spot suggested way *less* downhaul that I was usually applying for my NS Daytona 10.0 (I was using NS trim dots printed on the sail), I mean way less that the minimal, light wind setting and also more outhaul. Up into my surprise it wasn't bad. The sail gave more leverage during the pumps and rotated better. I wonder what do you think?

P.S.3. I've just discovered another nice (in my opinion) thing my FT and a large, 10.0 sail offers - I can get on plane in light winds when there is almost no chop - which translates to a very smooth ride. Easier uphauls and less violent crashes. With the lighter conditions and usually nice weather it is just a pure pleasure.
marek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2007, 03:37 AM   #33
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,100
Default

Hi Marek,
Not sure where you got the idea that it's necessary/desireable to hook in before your board is fully on plane.
As you've found, hooking in eliminates any big full body type pumping to loosen your board up and onto a plane.
So, maybe just worry about getting your front foot in the footstrap, then pump with all your weight on the back foot in the middle of your board.
Then when the board is up and planing, THEN hook in.
Then put your back foot in the footstrap. You cannot get into the back footstrap very well until you are hooked in, otherwise you will have to put weight on your front foot instead of transferring your weight up through the rig and down to the mast foot through your harness and lines.

P.S. #1 Hmmmm.... I'd think you would make alot better progress upwind if you stay unhooked, move back a ways on the board and move off center to the upwind side to tip your board upwind rail down, using the shape in the bottom of the board to take you upwind. In order to do this, you cannot very well be hooked in as you need to carry your rig fairly far forward to keep the rig powered up. Then it's a simple balance between how much you tip your board and how much forward you carry your rig.

P.s. #2 What mast are you using in your North Daytona 10.5 m2? The recommended North 100% mast I hope (but I don't think so).
With any other mast than the recommended mast the "tuning indicators just don't work.
Why? Because the tuning marks for downhaul up in the top of the sail only work with the specified mast or a mast that has pretty much identical bend characteristics. Any other bend or mast spec. and the mast may bend at way too little or way too much downhaul tension and either way, the tuning marks won't work.

P.S. #3 Yes, the F-Types are wonderful for cruising very fast on really flat water.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2007, 01:41 PM   #34
MartinJE
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 26
Default

Hi Marek

I usual try to get on the plane with my FT158 using Roger's suggestion: front foot in strap; pump; plane; hook-in; back foot.

However, if there's enough wind power and I'm tired then I'll: front foot in; hook-in; ooch the board (use the feet to push the board diagonally forward across the water in smooth pumps and/or use the back foot to bounce the board enough to get the rocker over the bow wave) - as the board accelerates slide the foot nearer and nearer to the rear strap plus small sail pumps (with the back hand to keep accelerating).

If it's over powered then I prefer to get front foot in; plane; back foot in; hook in - once the board's up and planing the pressures come off and it's easier to hook in. As you've probably noticed when it's gusty or overpowered the pressures on these big boards seem "huge" until they're freely planing - just keep that lee rail from digging in! I feel more in control if I hook in last.

Luck - Martin
MartinJE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2007, 03:43 PM   #35
marek
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinJE View Post
I usual try to get on the plane with my FT158 using Roger's suggestion: front foot in strap; pump; plane; hook-in; back foot.

However, if there's enough wind power and I'm tired then I'll: front foot in; hook-in; ooch the board (use the feet to push the board diagonally forward across the water in smooth pumps and/or use the back foot to bounce the board enough to get the rocker over the bow wave)
Yes, I do exactly the same thing for the same reason - if there is enough wind and I don't want to get tired with full body pumps. Ooching is funny, I just use my feet to gently slide the board forward and there she goes on plane.

Roger - thanks for the tip about the mast. You are right, I'm not using the dedicated mast (I use 50% cc "Yes" mast, will upgrade to 75% this year - interesting thing though, 75 "Yes" is 0.05kg *heavier* than 55: http://www.yes-sails.com/categorie.asp?IDCategoria=2).

-marek
marek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2007, 07:53 PM   #36
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,100
Default

Hi Marek,
Hmmmm.... not sure you got my point there, but I hope you did.
You need to decide what brand of sails you are going to use, and get a mast (s) that are as fully compatible with your sails as possible.
You can save money by getting whatever masts are available, but are you really saving money.......?
If the mast does not perform correctly in your sail, then you've devalued the sail some.
If your sail does not perform on the mast that you have, then you've devalued the sail some. Overall, you've saved some money, yes, but now you have a mast and a sail that cannot give you the full performance potential.
Getting the absolute "most" performance from both the sail and the mast has to be worth more than the money you might save with incompatability and lesser performance from both the mast and the sail.
When you get the "best" match from all your components, and they work together to make your sailing pretty much effortless, you will never want to sail "mix and not quite matched" components again.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2007, 08:19 PM   #37
marek
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 95
Post

Hi Roger. I got your point. What I meant is I like staying hooked in all the time to save energy. But as I learned here, with the marginal wind it's just too difficult to get on plane that way (as you can't do really deep pumps being limited by your harness lines).
When the wind is good though, I can stay hooked in all the time and ooch the board to get on plane.

As for the mast, I would have to have 2 490 masts for my Gaastra and NS sail, so yes, it's a budged issue.
But I always rig the sail at the dealer's before buying the new sail or at least ask if it'll work with a given mast.

Thanks again, this thread now a looks like a compedium about going upwind on F-type .

-marek
marek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2007, 09:16 PM   #38
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,100
Default

Hi Marek,
"But I always rig the sail at the dealer's before buying the new sail or at least ask if it'll work with a given mast."
You sure trust your dealer alot more than I trust mine.
I go one step further and check the sail, the sail bag, the specification sheets, and the
mast's specifications (printed on the mast usually) to determine the compatability.
Even then, I sometimes find that there's some degree of incompatability and I have to either use something "creative" or get a mast tested and only use a "tested" mast for a particular sail.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that Gaastra masts and North masts are quite different.
What mast does North Recommend for your 10.? m2 Daytona? What are the specs for this mast?
What mast does Gaastra recommend as the "best" mast for your smaller sail? What are the "specs." for this mast?
If you go either North or Gaastra, then you will need only one mast, of each size
(430/460/490/520) but make sure the mast meets the specifications for the sails you purchase.
I cannot begin to tell you how much difference this can make in the performance of your rigs, overall.
Also, since we are talking 490 masts here, what prevents you from getting a 100% mast. Much lighter, probably alot closer to the test specifications.
Then you can begin to get the full performance and range from your sails.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2007, 10:31 PM   #39
marek
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger View Post
What mast does North Recommend for your 10.? m2 Daytona? What are the specs for this mast?
What mast does Gaastra recommend as the "best" mast for your smaller sail? What are the "specs." for this mast?
North:
IMCS 28-32 490+CX (carbon extender), they don't say anything about %
They started this "minimal # of masts" policy recently, like you can rig most of their sizes with just 2 masts.
Gaastra:
IMCS 29, 490, 75%

Both North and Gaastra are constant curve and so are many other masts around. My mast is 55% (will upgrade to 75%) 29 imcs, 490cm cc.
I have to tell you, that Matrix on an original Gaastra mast (ok, 30%, but with correct imcs specs) rigged horribly and my dealer recommended replacing it with a mast from a different manufacturer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger View Post
Also, since we are talking 490 masts here, what prevents you from getting a 100% mast. Much lighter, probably alot closer to the test specifications.
Then you can begin to get the full performance and range from your sails.
Hope this helps,
Well, just one thing besides the budget - I've heard they are way more fragile (crashes, hits) than 75s, so I prefer to trade off some performance and have a more durable mast. Unless you have a different opinion?

-marek
marek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2007, 11:33 PM   #40
marek
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger View Post
P.s. #2 What mast are you using in your North Daytona 10.5 m2? The recommended North 100% mast I hope (but I don't think so).
With any other mast than the recommended mast the "tuning indicators just don't work.
Why? Because the tuning marks for downhaul up in the top of the sail only work with the specified mast or a mast that has pretty much identical bend characteristics. Any other bend or mast spec. and the mast may bend at way too little or way too much downhaul tension and either way, the tuning marks won't work.
OK, sorry for beating this topic up, but I've been thinking about these marks (on my way home) and I can't see how this is the case.
The marks are there so you know how much downhaul to apply. So you pull until you get a desired leech loseness. I though whatever mast you have, the ultimate goal is to make the leech loose down to the marks.
Even with a different mast, if the leech is loose within the correct area (marked on the sail) the sail is trimmed correctly.

?

-marek
marek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 01:37 PM.