Go Back   Starboard Forums > Free Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25th July 2007, 10:50 AM   #21
steveC
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 639
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

Overall, I think that Roger makes a point that's important here, but maybe it's not really front and center in the discussion. In reality, I perceive that the Serenity's advantage is its ability to be a totally all time displacement hull, with an option to be readily customized by the fin to suit the conditions, particularly weedy situtations where a more swept fin is needed. With respect to the latter situation, Roger has been on the leading edge of testing the viability of the Serenity design in tougher conditions (those including weeds). I appreciate his insight and experimentation in this regard. As currently configured, I think that the design is unique and unequalled in concept.

The idea of incorporating a fully retractable centerboard, while it would better suit racing scenarios, is really kind of out of suit with the Serenity's design. One must look to the Phantoms for such concepts, especially since competitive racing under varied conditions (that might even include planing conditions) can be possibly anticipated.

The one thing I find difficult about the Serenity is its length. Admittedly, one of its chief advantages when it comes to light wind performance. I only wish that it could be accomplished successfully as a two part assembly, as I have no where to store such a large hull.
steveC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2007, 08:56 PM   #22
Guest
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,321
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

I guess I'd like to know if this board is really any better than an old Div !! board. (Non-SB employees only, please.) Old Div II boards seem to be so much more tunable on the water with their retractable centerboards. They're easier to store and WAY cheaper.

Of course, the X-factor is that Div II boards have been at swap meets for years, cheap, and it hasn't had the effect of getting people back out sailng in light wind. If it takes buying an expensive board to get more folks back out on the water, I'm all for it. As long as its not my money.
Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2007, 10:34 PM   #23
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,101
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

Hi Guest,
I think you are right here, at least partially.
The Phantom Race I have is definitely a "custom shop" prototype (made to be exhibited at the USA rade show in Orlando last September) and in this particular board the centerboard does not add that much weight as they simply cut a long slot in the board, glassed the slot internally, and put the rubber seal on the bottom of the board.
To attach the centerboard (via it's pivot pins) to the board they made up 2 aluminum angle brackets with a hole to engage the pivot pins and 3 holes in the deck to hold the whole thing in the board.
It works really nicely, and didn't add much weight to the board.
The Phantom 302 I have has a big plastic cassette with fluted plastic side plates, large heavy seals on the bottom, etc. and I'm sure all this adds quite a bit of weight to the board.
I just like the Serenity the way it is, as in my opinion, the stock 70 cm wide blade fin makes the Serenity verymuch harder to sail than necessary.
I've found better speed, equal upwind angle, and the board is a whole lot easier to sail with smaller fins.
Sailors who only use the stock Serenity 70 cm wide are missing alot in both light wind performance and higher (much higher than most can imagine the Serenity out on the water in)winds. How about a 4.2 m2 Sailworks Hucker on the Serenity in 25 knots (very flat water here). The board absolutely rages along.
Also, a correction to the post above.
The 302 Phantom board the dealer questioned the weight on was finally weighed in accordance with the specifications and the spec. is(per the catalogue and website) 14.95 Kg. (32.95 lbs).
The board in question actually weighed 15.8 Kg (35 lbs.).
The +- 6% weight tolerance on 14.95 Kg. would be .897 Kg. so the board in question is right at the top of the overall tolerance.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2007, 12:18 AM   #24
Guest
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,321
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

Well, tried Serenity once in very light wind, moved around good. But in 25 knots, i have better gear. Good if some gear has very big range, if nothing else is available, but most people, i bet choose "spot on" over " huge range". I liked Serenity, but in it's best range i'm building sandcastles with my kids. It's not possible to be on water all the time anyway, so everybody chooses, when and on what gear they will be on. Serenity is very good to widen windrange of windsurfing, but for me maybe in near?longer future?
Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2007, 04:17 AM   #25
Randy
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 55
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

I like Serenity up to the point I can get planning on a 7.4 on my hypersonic, or another wide board. I've sailed it in more wind than that, and it can be fun, but you aren't nearly as fast as a shortboard, and its a little taxing and tricky. In truth, its just unecessary to sail a big board like that in that much wind.

There does seem to be different schools of thought on Serenity. Roger would use a smaller sail (7.5) and smaller fin combo, while I believe Jean-Marc uses a very big sail (10.6) and big fin combo. I'm mostly using a 7.4 and big fin combo. I'd like to try some smaller fins, but don't have any that really seem right for the job. I've got a 58 cm blade fin, and a 48 cm weed fin, but don't think either provide any benefit, though its very hard to tell anything when sailing by yourself. I've sailed it also with the small (40 cm) fin and an even smaller weed fin (36 cm.)

Given how much I spent on it, I'm staying off of it in 25 kt for sure!
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2007, 06:41 AM   #26
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,101
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

Hi Randy,
When is your club's fall race this year?
I might come down and you and I can race a bit or maybe go out
and show the longboards/IMCO the way around if it's really light.
Try the 58 cm blade fin. It will amaze you how much easier the
Serenity is to sail, tack and jibe with a fin that doesn't "bite" so much as the stock 70 cm wide.
If it's weedy, the 48 cm weed fin will work nicely as well, but it's a little big in reality.
R
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2007, 06:55 PM   #27
Randy
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 55
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

The Fall race is usually the 3rd weekend in October, but I don't think the date is set yet. I'll post it when it is. It would be interesting to compare notes and have another Serenity to race!

I'll try the blade fin. I have tried a cut down (about 56 cm) Mongo fin, but nothing definitive for performance, though it probably did make turning a little easier.
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2007, 08:21 PM   #28
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,101
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

Hi Randy,
I'm familiar with the Mongo design and mine is cut down as well.
Way to much lift and drag for the Serenity.
Try your 58 cm race fin. I think you will see that the "transitions" from upwind loading to downwind loading (by simply railing the board slightly) are much more gentle and you won;t get the big "kick"when the fin grabs just after it goes through neutral on your jibes.
Upwind angle on the Serenity is all about "engaging" the front of the board and railing to get good fin lift. With a smaller fin, you ge the same dynamics, but you need to roll the board slightly more wihich increases the "bite" of the nose as well and giving you optimum fin lift.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2007, 06:36 PM   #29
Randy
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 55
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

The Atlatna Fall Classic is Oct 20-21 this year. Its the week before the "Fall into Liquid" race at Ft. Walton in Fl. I hope to race in both events this year. I'll have to try your suggestions.
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2007, 03:58 AM   #30
Jean-Marc
TEAM
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,288
Default RE: Serenity - the way forward

Nice discussion going on here !

After 2 months sailing the Serenity, I really don't think a fully retractable daggerboard is necessary for the 1-9 knots of wind range as primarily designed for that board. Remember, it's been designed as a gliding ultimate machine for ultra light wind and I do believe it does quite a superb job at it, especially with the big 70 cm fin and big sail (in my case : NP RX2 10.6 or Severne Code Red 2 11.0). In winds below planing conditions (7 knots for my 65 kg), it does beat anything including a Div2 board + RX2 9.0 sail combo, no question. Absolute key is to trim the sail according to the conditions (baggy sail with tight leech in the lower wind range; flatter sail trim with loose leech in the higher wind range). Small venue do appear with time to be too small, long distance crusing all over the places is very easy to do and you'll end up doing a lot of mileage without much effort sooner or later !

I see no point sailing the Serenity in 25 knots of wind with a 4.0 sail unless it's your only single board quiver. Reason for that is that the board speed will top up at no more than 12 knots, i.e., when half of the board is rising above its own bow wave just below the carry handle. A true planing board will be much more fun to sail in these kind of conditions IMHO...

If you want to cover a wider wind range than 1-9 knots, I guess your best bet is to combine both the gliding and true planing performance and better get a Phantom 380 board with full on adjustable mast track and fully retractable daggerboard. This will sort of combine the best of both world IMHO, i.e., gliding and planing. I bet its board speed will not top up at 12 knots and it might be a better match to a true Div2 board, not the Serenity IMHO.

Cheers !

JM
Jean-Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 08:59 PM.