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Old 26th July 2007, 06:47 PM   #1
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Default Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

That is the question, which one.
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Old 27th July 2007, 12:41 AM   #2
steveC
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Default RE: Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

I think the choice could be narrowed to between the MauiSails TR-3 and the Hansen Formula HCL sails. However, I have to admit to exclusively sailing Bill Hansen's designs since 1986, so my view might be considered a bit prejudiced in nature. I have two new sails (5.6 Wave and 7.1 FreeRace) with the HCL neoprene leech panels, and while I haven't yet tried the 7.1, the 5.6 is a fantasic sail with tons of range. Although your focus point is formula sailing, I think that you would find that the HCL panels offer an innovative approach to leech dynamics.

If I wasn't so dedicated to Hansen's work, I would unquestionably go with Barry Spanier's sails. If one was to weigh in the amount of experience these two guys have racked up over time, there are very few, if any, in the business that have such strong credentials to offer. Also, I really feel that both Hansen and Spanier are truly customer focused and actively involved at the grassroots level. These guys aren't distant corporate employees that are buried deep in the structure of some mega company where corporate marketing and hype prevails. These guys are the real thing. Also, one only has to look a bit closer to recognize that the folks that are an integral part of their companies are incredibly talented and dedicated too.

Overall, I think the Hansen Sails and MauiSails brands are offering no nonsense products that reflect outstanding design excellence. Although it could be argued that there designs are a bit understated when compared to the some of the flashy graphics associated with many of the market leaders, don't let that fool you. Looks are only skin deep. Think quality instead.

As a final note, whatever brand you decide on, buy the recommended masts. Also, do yourself a favor and buy the MauiSails carbon boom to perfect the package.
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Old 27th July 2007, 03:49 AM   #3
G-42
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Default RE: Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

Particular reasons for the three contenders? Is that what you local shop can get you (and hence what you can get support for), or is it brand loyalty of some sort? Price?
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Old 27th July 2007, 12:29 PM   #4
Ian Fox
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Default RE: Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

(Disclaimer : obviously less than neutral standpoint from me)

I agree with Andreas, it's a slightly unusual mix of contestants, and a fairly detailless question for a complex comparison, but if we're going to meaningfully rate or rank one over the other, probably best to keep the focus of discussion objective.

"distant corporate employees that are buried deep in the structure of some mega company where corporate marketing and hype prevails" ??

Cheers ~ Ian
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Old 28th July 2007, 01:12 AM   #5
steveC
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Default RE: Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

Hi Ian,

Of course what I said is infinitely arguable, and one might say it's way too subjective in nature, but personal opinion is much like that. Regarding the statement you highlighted from my comments, I can say from my personal experiences that Hansen and Spanier are there for customers like me. They have both proven this to me, and I appreciate the extra effort and grassroots focus that they bring to the table. Being part of relatively small companies, compared with some of mega companies involved in the business, these guys are just more down to earth and accessable overall. All the marketing and advertising in the world is no substitute for direct communications and customer focus.

I have to admit that most all of my business goes to the small operations where personal communications are possible with the core figures involved. I guess I could buy sails from Neil Pryde, North or another large firm where there is little chance of direct contact and communications, but I'm looking for more.

To be fair, there are others in the business that offer the kind of personal approach and interest I'm looking for. Bruce Peterson of Sailworks comes to mind right away, as all my past business contacts with him have been excellent. His sail designs could easily be one of the choices here. I'm sure that other folks here could offer their special preferences based on their experiences and contacts. But, when it comes to choice, I think most decisions and directions in life are grounded more in subjectively, rather than objectivity. So, with all due respect, I don't believe much can be achieved here through strict objectivity. In my opinion, it's just too dry an approach, and not necessarily more meaningful overall. How does one objectively evaluate style and class?

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Old 28th July 2007, 08:00 PM   #6
geo
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Default RE: Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

I don't have experience on ALL these sails, but on Maui Sails only. From that restricted view I agree totally with SteveC's ideas about the Maui Sails company and Barry Spanier. Don't know about others but Barry proves totally supportive of customers, answers on the MS forum in a detailed and careful way, is glad to listen to what customers think, has the greatest experience one can think of (actually he invented or developed a good deal of the devices we are using during decades of work). And this all shows in his designs.
Going for the big famous brands in my view would mean: 1) no performance added, at all! 2) losing the chance of receiving good gentle detailed first hand support, 3) paying an higher price, 4) going along with the mass.
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Old 29th July 2007, 05:28 AM   #7
LK
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Default RE: Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

What a lot of BS !!

Is Severne a big famous brand ??????????
Barry was 3 years late with a wide sleeve sail, cause he didnt listen to his customers.
Phil and Kevin always were an custom sails with tweaked battens, cams, and tons of different masts.

Code Red performs as good as NP,North Gaastra, is super easy rigged, best cam rotation of all brands this year, and looks cool.
Masts dont brake and Ben, Jesper are nice guys.

Hansen is not available where I live, and TR3 was not possible to test before buying, so I took the Code Red R2, cause I have good exp. with other Severne sails/masts - and I am stoked.

If some has experiance with TR3 and Hansen and Code Red it would be nice to hear about the differences in performance/handlig.

Gaastra Grind: 4,2-4,7-5,0-5,4 ; Nitro 4 9,0; N3 10,4
Severne Gator 5,0- 6,5; S2 6,4 Code Red R2 6,1 - 7,7
Overdrive 8,5
still have
North Wharp and ART Ellypse : 4,7 -5,3
NP RX2 5,8 -6,2

Boards: K 96; AE 127, FE 160; Go 180; Fanatic Skate 100



Cheers

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Old 29th July 2007, 08:00 AM   #8
steveC
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Default RE: Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

I'll make it short. It was never my intent to get too negative about the other sail brands out there, particularly anything directly concerning Severne Sails. Really, it's about personal viewpoint and opinion, and what appeals to our needs and expectations. More importantly, I readily welcome a broad range of opinion that might be offered here.

I'm glad that LK finds synergy in his possibilities and choices. Still though, I would hope that we don't have to actively crash and burn different opinions that might differ than ours.
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Old 31st July 2007, 05:58 AM   #9
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Default RE: Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

Thank you very much for your replies but I afraid that question take a wrong way. I dont want to talk about the brand or the company of those sails, I would like to talk about the specifications of this sails.
For me the best one is the Hansen Formula HCL because it has 10 battens and 6 cams and I think it will have the most control for the battens and powerfull for the cams and 6 specifically-tuned HCLTM elastic inserts will give a very range of wind. In the other side are Severne Code: Red R2 (8 battens and 4 cams) and MauiSails (9 battens and 5 cams).

P.D. Sorry about my English.
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Old 31st July 2007, 04:38 PM   #10
geo
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Default RE: Severne Code:Red R2 vs MauiSails TR-3 vs Hansen Formula HCL

LK,

the fact that Barry was late introducing the wide sleeve in his designs does not mean he is not listening, just that he has his own ideas. And I think there is absolutely nothing wrong if such a sail designer bases his designs on his own experience and ideas rather than on those of customers. By the way, the wide luff in the TR-3 was introduced in order to solve film wrinkling problems due to the peculiar mast bend/luff curve of Maui Sails.

Guest,

I think that batten and cam count is a wrong way to make a refined choice among race sails. I mean that there could be design features more important than batten count. Sails may have different attitudes. I recently tried Gaastra's Vapor and GTX (slalom sizes) and I can tell you they have a distinct attitude, similar between them, way different from the TR-3. By the way, the 7 battens 3 cams GTX surprised me for its unexpectedly nice stability.
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