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Old 31st August 2007, 05:16 AM   #11
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Agree Cammed sails are ultimately faster but as for stability in higher winds not sure that holds anymore.
Modern sails breathe far more. Dont think a cammed sail twists off any batter than a no cammed and as for cams in real rough water/waves? No thanks.
Cams hold shape in rig in both extreme winds and no winds.Both these qualities can be faults. (Depowering been obvious issue)
Dont think its a case of one better than other. Cammed sails offer different characteristics.
Comparing a modern wave sail with a cammed race sail is impossible.
Its like comparing a Moto GP bike with a motocross. Each in its own environment is king.
Personally have no cams under 7metre and cams above. Personally dont think feel in modern rigs (like Alpha`s) can be improved.
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Old 31st August 2007, 09:45 AM   #12
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The smaller the sail the more cams I want cause it is likely to be used in strong wind and chop when stability is king. Have found cam sails easier to tune than camless as they give good feedback. In 7.5m plus sizings I like no cam for ease of use and cost and because they are used for fun on medium days; that said a good race sail in that size can be held in quite respectable winds.
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Old 31st August 2007, 04:31 PM   #13
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i would disagree with that, in high winds i would prefer a no cammed sail becuase i llike bump and jump sailing so i will want the sail to instanly depower and be very manouverable, i guess its more of a personal prefence whether you like them or not.
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Old 31st August 2007, 04:54 PM   #14
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Waar heb jij die 2008 Mauisails gezien ?
The Mission bij Brouwersdam 25 en 26 augustus. Naast de nieuwe spullen van fanatic en F2 (de speedboardjes van F2 zijn echt fucking klein geworden man!)


As for the rest, from what i'm reading i think we can agree on this: in lighter winds a cambered sail would be smoother in the ride then a camless sail (in lightwinds my camless sail really doesn't get me by like i want it to) but when the wind is more consistent there is no noticable difference and most of us seem to prefer camless sailing. Am i far off?
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Old 1st September 2007, 12:49 AM   #15
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Hi crazychemical,

It might seem that cambered sails are smoother in light winds because they maintain their shape through the holes in gusty winds, but when it gets time to jibe, the sail flip can be quite cumbersome and heavy, particularly if you're jibing in a hole. Also, it's important to remember that all cambered sails aren't created equal, since the 4-5 cambered race sails differ greatly from 1-3 cambered freeride sails. With race sails, sticky cambers can be a real pain. Go to any of the sail brand forums, and you will always find a wealth of folks having complications with cams and battens, to often include mast compatibility issues.

From my perspective, I prefer sails without cambers. Many above have rightfully pointed out that modern camless sails are very tunable and stable allowing them to perform very well in both light and heavy winds, and they depower and rotate so much easier. I also find that they rig and derig so much easier. I find far more pluses then minuses overall.

However, some folks really find synergy in cambered sails, especially those bigger and heavier folks like yourself. You might want to take a look at the FreeRace line at Hansen Sails because of their built in convertability. They are designed to be used with 1, 2 or 3 cambers, or simply camless. The beauty of the FreeRace line is that they are basically the same design as the full on Slalom Race line, less the wide sleeve and a camber or two, so they offer the more powerful planform shaping low in the sail. Overall, they offer a person the opportunity to effectively test and evaluate performance with the ability to camber up to personal preferences. I could be wrong, but they are the only brand offering so much inherent designed-in flexibility. Neal Pryde offers the option of removing the bottom camber in their RS Slalom, but that's no where near the customizing potential offered in the Hansen Sails FreeRace.

Last edited by steveC; 1st September 2007 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 1st September 2007, 01:02 AM   #16
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well, i was thinking of a Gaastra GTX sail which has 3 cams and my dealer said it's just a blast sailing it. Then i saw the maui sails MS-2 rigged, which has 3 cams aswell on the 8.5 model and i saw the appeal in that one aswell but it is harder to get cuz my local dealer doesn't do maui sails but a half an hour further there's a maui sails dealer so i can get both but i can't compare them.
The biggest problem i worry about it mastcompatabilety and the wearing out of my mast. I mean, for any 490 mast i find you need at least 75 % carbon because a 35% 460 mast already weighs quite a bit so i should immagine a 490 would be a ton to haul out of the water especially with a sail whith a weight of 6 kilo's out of water. So if a cambered sail is gonne fuck my mast up after two years and i spend 350 euro's o,n a good mast i find that a waste.
As for the rotation aspect: Northsails, Naish and Neilpryde use a hypercam which uses a sort of wheel to help the rotation without causing too much friction. So i think, with the new sails that wearing of the mast should be less and the rotation should be more smooth. Has anyone tried had any experience with say the new NS Prima's, or the 2008 NP camsails?
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Old 1st September 2007, 09:56 AM   #17
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All valid points. Depends on what you are doing and where. Does anyone know what kind of sails are doing well at speed events e.g. wave versus full on cambered?
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Old 2nd September 2007, 05:31 AM   #18
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http://www.gps-speedsurfing.com/gps....21808&uid=2323

Not bad for a 61 year old.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 03:07 PM   #19
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Just a few ideas.
My cammed sails (MS TR-3) don't wear the mast.
All true, but things have to be put in perspective. A good hint is nobody at top level uses camless sails for speed/slalom. In fact it seems to me cammed sails show their advantages in an unmistaken way when used up to their fullest potential. Ease up things just a little bit, sail just not totally committed to the highest performances, and maybe someone with a camless sail will chase you. But when you ask everything from your sail, then the fully cambered ones will point higher tanks to the higher efficiency of the rigid entry and will be more stable and therefore faster and easier thanks to their perfectly controlled twist.
Cammed competition sails are 100% thoroughbred products. Camless sails are not 100% and one can not exactly know in advance what the design is aimed at. Maybe low end to the detriment of stability, maybe ease of use to the detriment of top end, maybe else... some camless sails can be designed with top speed in mind, as an instance; as for the SpeedDemons, it seems to me they compensate the camless entry with larger surfaces (considering boom and mast lengths); this could prove a good choice for downwind sailing but probably at the cost of effective upwind performances.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 05:58 PM   #20
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Also not bad for a camless sail.
Wonder how many of the sailors here that suggest cambered sails are better have
ever sailed faster than 36.4- 39.9 knots in 20-25 knots of wind.
Not many!
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