Rebuild weed fin ?

Klint · 30th December 2009, 05:26 PM

Hi Roger and Ken,

A quick question for you and all other construction gurus here on the forum.

I’m considering rebuilding a normal tuttle weed fin by reposition the fin head and move it a bit backwards to create an offset base. This is my largest weedfin and I’m confident that an offset base will help the fin generate better performance, as it is now the fin trails to far behind the board.

This means I will have to separate the head from the fin and then either mould a new head or fix the old one to the new position. I realize there will be a big issue with strength in the new construction. My question is whether this is doable and if so, how is it done the best way?

I know that some people have rebuilt straight fins to weed fins with 45 degrees rake so it must be doable in some way.

Thanks for your input !

/ Andy

Roger · 30th December 2009, 07:55 PM

Hi Klint,
You could probably move the fin head back some, but I do not think you will get the change in performance your are looking for.
If the fin trails far behind the board, my current opinion (after many hours of sailing
the old 50 degree fins and many more hours sailing True Ames SB Weeds, some special vario rake SB Weeds, many sizes of the Tangent Dynamics vario rake weeds, and most of all Wolfgang Lessachers assymetrical Duo Weeds) is that your best and least expensive way to improve the performance (sailing performance, not weed shedding performance) is to purchase one of the new generation of weed fins.
Changing the angle of a weed fin really does not work as the foil is generated on the
LE angle. Change the LE angle and your foil no longer matches.
Vario Rake LE's are really the best as they shed the shallow surface weeds, but do not trail behind the board so much and the more vertical LE angle deeper on the fin gives you better performance both upwind and speed.
If you really want a super performing weed fin, try a Lessacher Design Duo (Assymetrical foils) Weed.
You can cut the head off and move it, but I do not know how you will restore the strength. I would not want to sail a weed fin with a moved back fin head very far from shore.
Sorry, I just don't think this is a good idea when new generation weed fins do not cost all that much.
Roger

Klint · 31st December 2009, 03:24 AM

Roger,

Thanks for your swift reply. I realise it will be to much work for a very uncertain result to modify my existing large weed fin.

I really want a fin with offset base cause I belive they perform better in the large sizes. Large weeders without offset simply shifts COE too far behind the board. Do you think a Tangent Dynamics 46 would be a good match to a iSonic 133 and 9,5 race sail if focus is on early planning and upwind performance? Is Sailworld the only dealer in the US who carries Tangent Dynamics?

The location I sail get moderate amount of weeds, can get heavy in later part of the summer and fall though. However, people who sail Formula in my area say they come clear with Gsport Someweed, which has a rake of 42 degrees I belive.

Thanks for your input !

Roger · 31st December 2009, 10:09 AM

Hi Klint,
Where are you located.
You should be able to get the Tangent Fins at Southport Rigging in the Kenosha WI area.
The guy that designed the Tangent Fins has been working at Southport for a couple of years.
I actually worked with Bill K. and Curtis H. on the Someweeds way back when.
They are pretty good, but I could never talk Curtis into going with the vario rake LE.
I manged to talk Chuck Ames into some Vario Rake SB Weeds and they were quite good.
The SB Weeds work well on formula boards.
The Tangent 46 would be very good also. Might get away with a 42 if you are not racing and not spending all your time looking for the highest upwind angle.
Wish you could try a Lessacher Design 40 cm Formula Duo.
If you are ever in Hatteras, look me up and you can try mine (if your board accepts Deep Tuttle).
They shed weeds really well, but the duo foil system helps with spinout and shedding both.
Hope this helps,

Lessacher · 2nd January 2010, 12:33 PM

Hallo Roger!I wish you a Happy New Year.Please look: Select is the first who works the cut out at the base on their weedfins. I do that 20 years.I am not happy, but it is so.
Wolfgang.

Klint · 2nd January 2010, 02:55 PM

Thanks for your input Roger !

Before I place my order I have just a few final questions. How well does the Reaper shed weeds as compared to 45 degrees weedfins? Can I expect the Reaper to be able to cope with medium amounts of Eel grass? Some people at my spot say they come clear with Gsport Someweed, has this fin similar rake as the Reaper?

http://images.google.de/images?hl=sv...ed=0CBMQsAQwAA

Shallow water is also an issue where I sail and 40-50 cm fins is the absolute maximum you can go at some places. Is the largest Reaper really 46 cm deep as stated? If you look at True Ames SB Weed or Shallow Water Weed they are significantly deeper intended for the same sail range.

Thanks !

Roger · 3rd January 2010, 08:13 AM

Hello Klint,
The Reapers were designed pretty specifically (and tested aggressively) for the eel grass that floats in the Pamlico Sound west of Hatteras Island (HISS site; Canadian Hole,
Island Creek, Fisco Woods, to name a few).
The Tanget Reapers do a pretty good job of shedding surface weeds without going to the 50 deg. rake angle (45 deg. back from vertical PLUS another 5 deg.) that puts the tip of the Someweeds so far out behind the board.
If Someweeds are the "go to" fin in your area, maybe you need one of those.
I don't use them because I find the Tangent Reapers and Lessacher Duo Weeds give me
better performance, better speeds, and the Lessacher Duo's are faster and shed weeds
better than the Vario Rake Tangents.
The "trick" to getting any weed fin that overhangs in front of the fin box is to get a really good seal (or better still fill the void completely with something hard that can be shaped).
I have a friend who has done extensive testing with the TA Santa Barbara weeds and he has very good luck "truncating" them (cutting off the tip parallel to the root) at whatever depth works well in your area.
There are lots of choices here, and I cannot make the final choice for you, I can only recommend what I have found works from personal experience testing weed fins.
Hope this helps,

Lessacher · 3rd January 2010, 02:02 PM

Hallo Roger! Pleas can you send me your mail a secondtime, I got over night 654 not
good mails. I forgot your mail to pick out. Wolfgang

Roger · 4th January 2010, 08:18 AM

Hi Wolfgang,
My email is:
sailquik@embarqmail.com
or
sailquik@gmail.com
I did recieve a note from you last nite, but I have not replied as I've
been flying about 3500 miles today from Baltimore (east coast USA) to Seattle (No. West Coast USA.)
A very long day for sure.
I'll get back with you later tonite or tomorrow.
Regards,
Roger

Klint · 7th January 2010, 06:01 PM

Roger,

Thanks alot for your input, your help is alwasy highly appreciated.

Wish you a successful sailing year 2010.

30th December 2009, 05:26 PM	#1
Klint Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 66	Rebuild weed fin ? Hi Roger and Ken, A quick question for you and all other construction gurus here on the forum. I’m considering rebuilding a normal tuttle weed fin by reposition the fin head and move it a bit backwards to create an offset base. This is my largest weedfin and I’m confident that an offset base will help the fin generate better performance, as it is now the fin trails to far behind the board. This means I will have to separate the head from the fin and then either mould a new head or fix the old one to the new position. I realize there will be a big issue with strength in the new construction. My question is whether this is doable and if so, how is it done the best way? I know that some people have rebuilt straight fins to weed fins with 45 degrees rake so it must be doable in some way. Thanks for your input ! / Andy

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30th December 2009, 07:55 PM	#2
Roger Dream Team - School Guru Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,060	Hi Klint, You could probably move the fin head back some, but I do not think you will get the change in performance your are looking for. If the fin trails far behind the board, my current opinion (after many hours of sailing the old 50 degree fins and many more hours sailing True Ames SB Weeds, some special vario rake SB Weeds, many sizes of the Tangent Dynamics vario rake weeds, and most of all Wolfgang Lessachers assymetrical Duo Weeds) is that your best and least expensive way to improve the performance (sailing performance, not weed shedding performance) is to purchase one of the new generation of weed fins. Changing the angle of a weed fin really does not work as the foil is generated on the LE angle. Change the LE angle and your foil no longer matches. Vario Rake LE's are really the best as they shed the shallow surface weeds, but do not trail behind the board so much and the more vertical LE angle deeper on the fin gives you better performance both upwind and speed. If you really want a super performing weed fin, try a Lessacher Design Duo (Assymetrical foils) Weed. You can cut the head off and move it, but I do not know how you will restore the strength. I would not want to sail a weed fin with a moved back fin head very far from shore. Sorry, I just don't think this is a good idea when new generation weed fins do not cost all that much. Roger

31st December 2009, 03:24 AM	#3
Klint Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 66	Roger, Thanks for your swift reply. I realise it will be to much work for a very uncertain result to modify my existing large weed fin. I really want a fin with offset base cause I belive they perform better in the large sizes. Large weeders without offset simply shifts COE too far behind the board. Do you think a Tangent Dynamics 46 would be a good match to a iSonic 133 and 9,5 race sail if focus is on early planning and upwind performance? Is Sailworld the only dealer in the US who carries Tangent Dynamics? The location I sail get moderate amount of weeds, can get heavy in later part of the summer and fall though. However, people who sail Formula in my area say they come clear with Gsport Someweed, which has a rake of 42 degrees I belive. Thanks for your input !

31st December 2009, 10:09 AM	#4
Roger Dream Team - School Guru Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,060	Hi Klint, Where are you located. You should be able to get the Tangent Fins at Southport Rigging in the Kenosha WI area. The guy that designed the Tangent Fins has been working at Southport for a couple of years. I actually worked with Bill K. and Curtis H. on the Someweeds way back when. They are pretty good, but I could never talk Curtis into going with the vario rake LE. I manged to talk Chuck Ames into some Vario Rake SB Weeds and they were quite good. The SB Weeds work well on formula boards. The Tangent 46 would be very good also. Might get away with a 42 if you are not racing and not spending all your time looking for the highest upwind angle. Wish you could try a Lessacher Design 40 cm Formula Duo. If you are ever in Hatteras, look me up and you can try mine (if your board accepts Deep Tuttle). They shed weeds really well, but the duo foil system helps with spinout and shedding both. Hope this helps,

2nd January 2010, 12:33 PM	#5
Lessacher Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 96	Hallo Roger!I wish you a Happy New Year.Please look: Select is the first who works the cut out at the base on their weedfins. I do that 20 years.I am not happy, but it is so. Wolfgang.

2nd January 2010, 02:55 PM	#6
Klint Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 66	Thanks for your input Roger ! Before I place my order I have just a few final questions. How well does the Reaper shed weeds as compared to 45 degrees weedfins? Can I expect the Reaper to be able to cope with medium amounts of Eel grass? Some people at my spot say they come clear with Gsport Someweed, has this fin similar rake as the Reaper? http://images.google.de/images?hl=sv...ed=0CBMQsAQwAA Shallow water is also an issue where I sail and 40-50 cm fins is the absolute maximum you can go at some places. Is the largest Reaper really 46 cm deep as stated? If you look at True Ames SB Weed or Shallow Water Weed they are significantly deeper intended for the same sail range. Thanks !

3rd January 2010, 08:13 AM	#7
Roger Dream Team - School Guru Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,060	Hello Klint, The Reapers were designed pretty specifically (and tested aggressively) for the eel grass that floats in the Pamlico Sound west of Hatteras Island (HISS site; Canadian Hole, Island Creek, Fisco Woods, to name a few). The Tanget Reapers do a pretty good job of shedding surface weeds without going to the 50 deg. rake angle (45 deg. back from vertical PLUS another 5 deg.) that puts the tip of the Someweeds so far out behind the board. If Someweeds are the "go to" fin in your area, maybe you need one of those. I don't use them because I find the Tangent Reapers and Lessacher Duo Weeds give me better performance, better speeds, and the Lessacher Duo's are faster and shed weeds better than the Vario Rake Tangents. The "trick" to getting any weed fin that overhangs in front of the fin box is to get a really good seal (or better still fill the void completely with something hard that can be shaped). I have a friend who has done extensive testing with the TA Santa Barbara weeds and he has very good luck "truncating" them (cutting off the tip parallel to the root) at whatever depth works well in your area. There are lots of choices here, and I cannot make the final choice for you, I can only recommend what I have found works from personal experience testing weed fins. Hope this helps,

3rd January 2010, 02:02 PM	#8
Lessacher Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 96	Hallo Roger! Pleas can you send me your mail a secondtime, I got over night 654 not good mails. I forgot your mail to pick out. Wolfgang

4th January 2010, 08:18 AM	#9
Roger Dream Team - School Guru Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,060	Hi Wolfgang, My email is: sailquik@embarqmail.com or sailquik@gmail.com I did recieve a note from you last nite, but I have not replied as I've been flying about 3500 miles today from Baltimore (east coast USA) to Seattle (No. West Coast USA.) A very long day for sure. I'll get back with you later tonite or tomorrow. Regards, Roger

7th January 2010, 06:01 PM	#10
Klint Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 66	Roger, Thanks alot for your input, your help is alwasy highly appreciated. Wish you a successful sailing year 2010.