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Old 24th October 2007, 12:58 AM   #21
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 459

Steve`s right in one thing its an interesting thread.
Every few years we seem to think board design has reached its Zenith and change is just change and it sometimes seems little improvement.It even seems industyry is govenrned by revolution (ie things coming back around again) rather than real evolution.
Thankfully in reality this is not the case.Minute developments year on year do have really significant effect over a few years.
In my opinion boards have reached a stage I never thought they would; in that my Kombat is fantastic in waves; gybes great; handles chop ;planes early (relatively) and is damned fast.Not lonng since we had to have one or the other. Comfortable or fast.Good in waves or early planing.Boards have changed beyond all recognition.Obviously there have been a few dead ends but generally speaking we have come a long long way.If you dont want to change every year thats fine but without doubt if you dont change after 3/4 seasons you ARE missing out.
I do think rig development has peaked though !(Perhaps 3 seasons ago)
Wind for next week !!??
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Old 24th October 2007, 03:54 PM   #22
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 329

Originally Posted by Screamer View Post
Hi Geo

No need to be so mysterious here, I am interested to hear what exactly is XY model/brand? ...
Hi Scremer,

I don't want to start a discussion about xy being superior/inferior to ziS. My point is that good refined products from experienced shapers are very close in performance and differences are mostly about "how" rather than "how much". Again, '06 Sonic 95 was almost unchanged from '04 and '05 Sonic 100 and was competitive with xy. Another year of breakthrough evolutions, and we have new '07 model such as iS94 and 101... still competitive with an almost unchanged xy. As for '08, it seems things are still the same. So what? Is it possible for xy to be competitive against models whose performances have evolved "so much"? Or maybe someone is cheating? Among all other considerations, did I buy an xy back in '06 now I would still have a commercially "up to date" board; having bought a board from a make that cares so much about evolution, I have an obsolete one instead... with still competitive performances.
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Old 24th October 2007, 07:06 PM   #23
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 27

...this is spot on with my original post GEO. One of the main reasons people say not to buy a custom board is resale value. Not that within a couple of years it will be outdated. - or you might end up with a board that you didn't want????? - not unless you're a d**b f**k.

These comments are the same with a production board but you know that it WILL be outdated within maximum 12 months if you buy early in the season. Which many people don't as tests [when did a test report last surprise you?] have not come out.

Don't get me started on magazine testting - although I must say that BOARDS UK has a much better angle these days writing more intelligently around the industry.

If you are a decent sailor and know what you want - buying a custom should be your first option in some cases.

If you buy an 2008 board now, by 2010 season it will only be worth max 50% of its value. And 2011 much less. By 2012 it is worthless i.e. 10 - 15% of original value. And it will look like s**t and you'll want a new one.

I am considering buying a Proof custom RipLine [my spec.] rather than a SB Kombat or JP / RRD FSW. These boards have only slightly changed in recent years so buying a custom I no longer have to deal with this 'change for changes sake' business.

And if I like it I will probably replace my 06 Acid in a year or so.

Price for a custom is only marginally higher than a production board and you have something handmade! How cool is that! And bearing in mind windsurfing is not a green sport by any stretch of the imagination - you haven't had it carted all the way from China!
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Old 25th October 2007, 04:03 AM   #24
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 639

I thought that would be noteworthy to bring up a point that's a reality, at least in my world. While many folks here appear to rely on the availability of a resale market to recycle their slightly used older product and to partially fund new product, what does one do if there is no resale market?

Assume for a moment that if you buy a product, you're ultimately stuck with it. In that light, an investment becomes much more of a long term commitment where a number of important concerns come to the forefront. Chief among these concerns is product quality and durability, as nobody wants the bottom to drop out in a season or two. Probably no less important is a product's design life and its long term fitness for the task, particularly if it's considered a leading edge product when you buy it. Lastly, although not fundamental to its use and performance, the appearance of a product must appeal to a person's sense of style and character. No doubt, looks can be an important statement, and one would hope that a certain timelessness and vibrancy exists in the graphic design over the long haul.

Now, every day is a new day, and there is always going to be a certain degree of change possible. Usually things follow a pattern of slow evolution rather than the idea of abrupt revolution. Clothes provide an excellent example to work with, because while things are constantly being changed in some way up to four times a year, the core concepts remain relatively unchanged because the basic attributes of the human body really don't change. Of course, even though the idea of what's fashionable and current is driven very hard all the time by the clothing industry, one has to think that a windsurfing board would be more like a bicycle or car where function and purpose can be depended on for long term serviceability and performance.

I guess the question needs to be asked whether one is being left in the dust the following year or two (or maybe even 4-6 years) as you try to realize the value in the product you bought. Although this is certainly an arguable point if one was a pro competitor in the arena with top flight talent looking for any kind positive margin to leverage from, I seriously doubt that the year to year evolution is that meaningful to the average sailor. I think I can say this with a certain degree of confidence, because of my personal experiences. The high wind boards I have been using are at least a 11-12 year old design, and while they could be viewed as a bit narrower and a tad longer, I don't find that I'm being readily dusted by my fellow sailors. Even looking at my slalom boards (one from 1999 and a replacement from late 2006), the performance differences aren't that dramatic. Right now, my newest one is beached due to damage, and I'm back on the old one for a while. Am I disappointed and getting embarrassed by others on the lastest thing? Not hardly.

As I suggested in an earlier post, I think that past products shouldn't be viewed as unfashionable and somehow less potent. I feel that history sometimes doesn't get the recognition and respect it deserves. Over time, products do wear out due to use and must be replaced, I would hope that folks could buy with some confidence and feel proud over the long haul.

I seriously doubt at too many Ferrari owners feel embarrassed by their older model designs.
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Old 25th October 2007, 09:32 PM   #25
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 459

Yes but Steve drive an old Dino and then have a go in an F40; 355 or anything post 95.You would give the Dino away(except that its worth a Fortune)
Compare a Caterham 7 from 95 to one from 05.Yes the 95 was good but the 05`s are just sublime.Same with Porsche. (Compare a 944 with a Boxster!)
Time moves on.

If you are buying very specialist kit I sort of agree.Dont think my old Slalom board from Circa 87 would be that slow (with modern rigs on it)
However over past few seasons it really has become possible to have a board that can compete on speed terms with likes of Sputniks ; ealy planing on a par with Astro Rocks and then be more than capable in waves/chop. (Kombats/Fanatic Hawks/Goya FXR`s)
Few weeks ago mate was on his Thomen(speed/slalom board from late 90`s). Not long since I woukld have had to put my similar (horrible sailing) board on to keep up.I put Goya FXR on and he was struggling keeping up with me; plus I was making gybes.(And he`s better sailor)
I know we are comparing stuff thats almost 10 years old but the mere fact we look at it says a lot about pace of board development.
A new board will be worn out in five years and to my mind obsolete. Roughly 200 a year depreciation for best sport in world is nothing.
BTW depreciation on Custom boards is double that on production. You dont have a clue what you are buying with a 3 year old Custom so nobody buys them 2nd hand.(Not at a price worth selling them for anyway)

Boards . Carve 131. Goya FXR 105. Acid 86.
PS Want to try Futura.(Didnt like S type) as replacement for Carve.
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