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Old 30th October 2007, 07:10 AM   #1
Expander
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Question Wich complementary small isonic for 133 ?

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2007 isonic 133 with a 9.0 is my board for slalom racing in LIGHT wind conditions (my weight is 80 kgs x 1,87 cm height).

I need a smaller slalom board to use ESSENTIALLY with a 7.3 sail.

I would like to buy a isonic 111 (a close out) but I'm scared it's too close to 133... on the other hand I'm afraid isonic 101 has very few liters for my purposes.

What do you think about ??

Thank you.

Last edited by Expander; 31st October 2007 at 05:50 AM.
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Old 30th October 2007, 05:13 PM   #2
Phill104
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I have a 133, a 115 and the 87. There are times when the 133 and the 115 overlap but for light winds the 133 is superb.

The 115 does work very well with an 8.5 but I prefer it with the 7.8. For a 7.0 I would use the 87.

If I was going to buy this quiver again I would probably get 133, 101 and 87. But I didn't plan a quiver of 3 iSonics, it just sort of happened and I love them all.
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Old 31st October 2007, 05:48 AM   #3
Expander
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IAN, REMI, have you some suggestions ?
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Old 31st October 2007, 04:25 PM   #4
Ian Fox
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Hi Expander,

Borderline case !!

Typically with 80kg rider, the iS101 is going to be fine with 7.3m, and the upside of the 101 choice being that you will certainly get further up the wind range (and thus a noticeable increase in quiver range) with 101, while still retaining minimal but practuical overlap to the 133, UNLESS you're often in marginal 7.3 conditions (in which case the 111 is king).

Typically quiver sizing in iS's goes in 2 board jumps; that's to say 133;111 or 122;101.
But on the other hand, I wouldn't see (in this case) any need to follow "typical" if you feel some decent potential in the upside range of the 101.
I mean, when you weigh it up, do you have more to loose by not taking that upside c/w the extra overlap zone between 133 and 111 ??

Wider tailled 2008 101 probably closes down the gap to 133 just that little bit more than 2007 101, but it's marginal. New fins on 2008 I would rate better in real life than 2007.

Another factor to consider is if you (personally) tend to prefer a "smaller" board in these (7.3) conditions (with potential for a little more performance once powered but a slight extra challenge / more active style to get/keep it there) - or are you a rider that prefers to carry that little "extra" board for most occassions and takes a slightly easier (more passive) approach to planing etc. Both are valid styles, and can influence (personal) choice.

Interesting side point (makes life harder, not easier for you..) is that I know many guys who chose the 111 when they really could have gone with the 101. And vice verca; many guys who probably should have gone 111 but went 101 instead. Good news is that very few consider they went the wrong way, or made the wrong choice. Basically with both 101 and 111 you got massive versatility and range in that "perfect" (not too light, not too crazy) slalom range... you know, just about 7.3m , nicely powered!

Then factor in the cost of the new board and I'll be sure that tilts it one way or other (?) S/miles per hour. Very important factor in these boards too!

Sorry I was not decisive, but hope you got the idea..

Cheers ~ Ian
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Old 1st November 2007, 02:06 AM   #5
steveC
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If I was in your shoes, I'd go with the iS101 over the iS111, particularly if your focus targets a 7.3 sail. With the iS133 you're set for very light winds, so I'm thinking that when you rig a 7.3 sail your goal will to be powered up, as opposed to milking the low limit of the sail.

One thing that remains somewhat of an unknown here are the water conditions you would expect to encounter at your locale using the 7.3. If the conditions can tend to be on the rougher side, I really think that the iS101 would clearly shine more and be more versatile overall. Also, you would have the option of easily dropping down in sail size into the mid 6 meter size should the wind really go off. Of course, it's unclear here about any other smaller boards that you might have that might potentially overlap with the iS101 or iS111. Still, all things considered, I believe that the iS101 is the ticket here.
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Old 1st November 2007, 06:14 AM   #6
Expander
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Thank you Phill104, Ian and SteveC for replies.

for Ian: could I assume ideal sail for any iS (2007 models) is approx. 1 meter less than declared max size ?? For example: 133 sails range covers from 6.5 to 10.0... so, could I think that "ideal" sail for iS 133 is a 9 meters or that iS 111 ideal sail is a 8 while for iS 101 is a 7.5 ???

for SteveC: yes I would like to use 7.3 in Mid to High wind condition with option to switch to a 6 meters sail when wind increases... my only dubt about iS 101 regards volume: I'm afraid 101 liters (96 in ISAF list of approved slalom boards) are very little and that this board tends in sinking... what are your exprerience about ?
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Old 1st November 2007, 07:14 AM   #7
Ian Fox
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Hi Expander,

For 2007 iS with 80kg "typical" rider :

iS101 : 7.0m sweetspot
iS111 : 7.5m sweetspot
iS122 : 8.0m sweetspot
iS133 : 8.5m sweetspot

Obviously anything within +/- 0.5 m of above will still be well inside "ideal" range.
Personal style (and local water state conditions for a given windspeed) still play a noticeable role, some riders prefer (for a given wind - or sail - range) a slightly (ie : one size ) bigger board tuning and "blast across the top" (of chop) type style, whilst others prefer the smaller, more direct and calmer type ride (board sits down in chop) of the smaller board option for same conditions.

Me personally (92kg) would have no hesitation to take 101 for 7.3m if it wsn't marginal 7.3m - and especially if I wanted to have good 6m range in this same board as well. Despite the volume the 101 sizes very "101" when it's being sailed, and although some compromise could be argued in static uphaul mode, it's not often an issue..

However, (as the small variance in sweetspot confirms), the 111 is not out of the 7.3m frame at all, and tuned/sailed in the "blast across the top" mode in more powered / choppy conditions has been shown to be an effective (competitive) on-water option to the 101 while still retaining some extra "reserve" of volume and planing threshold. (everything else being equal, which it rarely is..). One significant variable is how "performance" is judged; ie : in short course slalom racing , acceleration (ie ;bigger board) can also be more effective than a marginal difference in top end speed. Conversely, in open water/ long distance (or pure "top end drags/blasting with mates) accel is a less issue than top speed. And please note, the full "blast across top mode" is usually more committed, more challenging - and less comfortable.
It's not for everyone. But it's also not ineffective ..

So all jokes aside, I'm not dodging the (marginal) question.
I'm showing you how to (best) resolve it for yourself !

Cheers ~ Ian
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Old 1st November 2007, 07:54 AM   #8
G
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Ian you're a "professor" !!!No better way to explain a complex argument.
I totally agree with you.
In this question what really makes the difference is the personal feeling/taste of the sailor.In the crowded range of Isonics the vicinity of board sizes can generate some (useless) thought but their big attitude to adapt itself at any condition reduce substantially the problem (at least for the real world use).
Please note that I'm stating this because of my direct experience.I was almost stressed for have to choose just one between 111 or 101 and after having sailed my 111 all the season I can say that if you're in 75-85 kg range you can ride succefully both board in such nearly the same condition!
Actually I'm not saying they're the same but that they could fine trimmed also for that part of the range they're not best suited for.What do you think can big change between 111 l or 101 ?!Push the button "on" and play the game hard on 111 or stay quieter and enjoy the 101.Both have their weak point but personally prefer don't miss power when in the pack.If too windy just reduce the fin and the sail and that's it.Or inspire yourself to Antoine!!!
Another thing I'd like really say here is that maybe Isonic is not so sensitive as other brands but you NEVER will be in trouble with them!
The only downside I would report here is its difficult (compared to some other board) sometimes or in such a situation to put the 6th gear and get your chance for overtake another rider.BUT it is more frequent when in freeride mode than in a race course.
Do you agree Ian? I know,it's all a compromise matter and it's not possible stay in both sides but searching and developing.....
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Old 1st November 2007, 10:21 AM   #9
CarlosD
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Hi Expander,

Iīm waiting for my new IS133 W85 (probably tomorrow i will receive it ) in order to replace my nice Manta 125 . Currently I also own an IS111 2007 and an IS86 2007, so my quiver will be very similar to Phill 104īs (Hi Phill, how are you?).
All these weeks I was wondering if the new IS 101 would fit better in the new quiver than the 111 2007, last weekend a close friend brougth a new 101 from hawaii and I had the opportunity to try the new toy. frankly speaking I didnīt found any major advantage, at least for my weight (89-90 Kg -1,83m) and highly overpowered sailing style (I tried both boards with code Red 7.7 -definitively better for IS111- and Vapor 6.5 -slightly better for IS101-). An important detail is that when the wind eases the volume difference is really evident.
As you are lighter but higher, our leverage power would be quite similar, so probably you will arrive to the same conclusions (of course dependig of your riding style).

I hope this will help you, but my recomendation (If you have the opportunty) is try yourself both boards.

Regards
Carlos
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Old 2nd November 2007, 04:00 AM   #10
steveC
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Hi Expander,

I response to your question, I would have to admit to being the type of sailor that Ian identifies as preferring the smaller board that rides closer to the water. Of course much of this has to do with my lighter weight and smaller size (70-72kgs x 1.73m), but even a number of years ago when I was heavier (86-88kgs), I still felt the same. Also, all my sailing is done in the ocean where the running swell can differ from the more immediate wind generated chop.

Regarding my experience with the iS101, I have to be frank and admit that I haven't riden it. All my slalom boards are customs made by Mike Zajicek (Mike's Lab), but I'd think that you'd agree that recommending boards other than Starboards here wouldn't be too appropriate. But to give you some idea of my board spacing, the volumes are (noted as approximates) 85, 100 and 120 liters, and my widest board (the 100 liter) is 61cms. The 100 liter board has a very similar sail range to the iS101, but it's more skewed to the 5.0-7.5 range. With a 7.0, its super sweet across the full range of the sail, even the real light side of the spectrum.

Although many good points have been raised contrasting the iS101 and iS111, I would hang tough with the smaller of the two boards as the best choice. However, if you were targeting a one board solution, the iS111 would probably offer a more well rounded selection.
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